Of course, historically people "could have imagined". I'm talking about seeing this through the eyes of a civilian that is brought off a train wagon and told they are being put in a labour camp. In that situation, I think very few people have it in them to imagine that their captors are organising the largest and most industrialised mass murder in history, and that they won't even make it out of the "showers" alive.

I don't expect them to launch a revolt, but with prisoners outnumbering guards 100:1, I don't think so many would have walked to their execution in orderly files. I think there would have been a lot more kicking and screaming involved if they knew what was coming. Remember that these weren't strangers either: We're talking about whole families and all their friends sitting calmly together on the train and walking willingly into the gas chambers. That only happens if people are lured into thinking this is something other than it is.

You know how you could change it? By convincing the DNC they will 100% lose on the platform and actions that made them lose. Nothing else, going back and trying to tell millions of people that ICE will send people to concentration camps and deprive them of due process and give Israel unlimited logistical and diplomatic support as they commit a genocide, and they will say "...like theyre doing now?"

Do you not remember the Migrant overflow facilities they concentrated immigrants in under Biden, in greater numbers? Oh right, you went back to brunch once a D was doing the same shit we all agreed was bad when Trump was doing it.

I am a specists, and I believe equal rights and dignity extend to all humans. And farm animals are not humans.

Now, obviously morality shifts as the society evolves so I am open to reconsider my position. Maybe the day we let farm animals vote will be the day I become vegan.

ntt is a fallacious line of argument. it falls prey to the spectrum fallacy.

what's so bad about any of that?

trade stock tips? with the time machine you could even go to an earlier time to exploit knowledge of economic trends, and then make multiple trips to the day before the election.. every time you run out of time, just go back 24h again.

Forgot where I read because it's been years ago, but someone said that humans should be blessed being born human and not as sheep, as sheep can be led anywhere without question including for slaughter.

Apart from a broken spirit, there's also a lot of denial. "This can't be happening. It can't be that bad. It all will be over soon. We'll make it through."

prisoners outnumbering guards 100:1

100 unarmed, malnourished civilians, many of them old, young or female and almost all of them never having killed or even seriously hurt anyone in their lives vs 1 murderous soldier who has already murdered dozens of people today alone, armed with training, guns and fortified positions... It's not a winnable fight. Maybe if you put exactly these 101 people in one room the 100 could stand somewhat of a chance, but that's not what happened here.

Look for example at the referenced Sonderkommando revolt. From what I can find, the Sonderkommando consisted of able-bodied men in somewhat ok condition. They were pretty much the best-suited for a revolt. And still at the end of the revolt, 452 Sonderkommando members were dead and only 3 Nazi soldiers died. It was like shooting fish in a barrel.

Also, compared to the regular prisoners, the Sonderkommando members actually knew what was going on and that nobody was supposed to make it out of the camp alive. They managed to keep the extermination a secret even inside the camps.

Why should they? Adults are more expensive to raise per kg of meat.

Because if you take this as a metaphor, there's always a worse place to go.

Sounds like someone who wants to cover up their own speciesism.

The time for retreat and insurrection was the day Kraków fell, not the day you stepped out of a prison train.

Go read about the Colditz Castle Prison Break. That involved full units of British POWs collaborating in the waning days of Nazi occupation. And it still failed, getting virtually everyone killed.

speciesism is necessary for correct action.

Edit:

from the wikipedia page on speciesism:

Speciesism is not merely plausible; it is essential for right conduct, because those who will not make the morally relevant distinctions among species are almost certain, in consequence, to misapprehend their true obligations.

"Correct" as defined by human supremacists. Yuck.

as defined by a professional ethicist.

I never said the kicking and screaming would have been successful. I'm just trying to explain why I think so many people went quietly, and pointing out that most people, when faced with the prospect that their entire family, all their friends, and they themselves face imminent death if they do nothing will tend to do something, regardless of whether it's likely to succeed.

I'm not saying they "should have" done anything specific. I'm pointing out that pretty much the only explanation for why they went as quietly as they did was that they didn't know what was coming. People that are knowingly faced with the imminent murder of their family will not typically stand idly and watch.

Also, keep in mind that there are fates worse than a quick painless death in the gas chambers. And the Nazis very much used those as well.

You have one specific meat industry largely organized around killing baby animals.