Infighting
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Perhaps that was an argument before Trump got voted, but now? What have the Dems actually done? Why not vote someone else instead of these 2 garbage options?
wrote last edited by [email protected]"Look a distraction from them offering half the things I want! Btw Bush was great!"
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The more nuanced communists understand that the past doesn’t have to define the future 1:1, but they also have the uphill battle of people agreeing with everything they say, until they actually mention the word “communism,” thanks to decades of propaganda.
wrote last edited by [email protected]I am aware of that. I'm just like... I see a lot of "leftists" that think "successful socialist projects" have to replicate the USSR 100% with everything good and bad about it mixed in. If your definition of "building a better world" is killing or enslaving people for disagreeing with you, you are not a leftist, you're a nazbol.
And like, the USSR clearly does not exist anymore, and for most of its existence it made a joke out of socialist principles.
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The antidote to infighting in my experience is organizing in ideologically diverse spaces. I've organized with liberals and all types of different leftists. It has left me with the perspective that all these people are good people that just want better for the world. It's hard to get angry at them once you know them. Per usual the solution is to touch grass.
How does that work in the opposite direction, though? Republicans are protecting pedophiles and labelling truth as opinion, all whilst dehumanizing fellow Americans.
Tell me, how does one meet in the middle with such a monster?
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You caught me: I spent a lot of time working on getting that bit juuuust right because because I'm going to get it printed on a mug and gift it to a couple people who'll love it. Glad you liked it, it means I did it right!
Making t-shirts and merch is my sidequest when drawing smuggies. I don't sell them, it's just for self-wear, I've got an entire wardrobe of them by now. The one I'm wearing today :
It was the glasses and the little lightning bolts that gave it away as to all the work put into it. Honestly if you put it on a mug I'd say still leave the nazi and the punch line on a parallel line. It really hits.
And making your own punk/pop art wearables is very classic and if you havent heard Of them your style reminds me a bit of OSGEMEOS though far less surreal.
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No. I've seen marxist-leninists, maoists, and anyone in that area of thought arguing the following:
- LGBTQ+ identities are bourgeois degeneracy
- Trans people are a capitalist invention to divide workers
- Nazis have a point when it comes to nationalism
- Assad and Putin are leftists
- Anarchism has never been tried successfully (because every time someone tried they got betrayed by MLs and executed by them for wrongthink)
- Animal Farm is capitalist propaganda
- Killing millions of people is necessary for a better world
- States are 100% necessary for the development of socialism
- China is communist or will be communist by 2050
- Ukraine is a Nazi state who deserves to be invaded
- Russia taking children from Ukraine and relocating them is just them being nice and removing them out of the warzone
- Anarchists are all children who don't know better
- The socialist state must uphold "traditional values"
- Stalin exclusively killed Nazis
- The only valid leftist theory is the one that argues Marxism-Leninism is correct
- "Socialist" police are a good thing because they don't serve capital, they serve the people
- Leftists who don't agree with us are enemies of the revolution and should be enslaved because they will attempt to overthrow our successful socialist state
If you think ANY of those arguments are valid for leftism, then I'm sorry, but I don't want you around me.
wrote last edited by [email protected]I have literally never run into anyone in real life who says any of these as any form of communist, other than 'communist' parties full of pensioners or maga communists.
::: spoiler spoiler
- LGBTQ+ identities are bourgeois degeneracy
- Trans people are a capitalist invention to divide workers
- Nazis have a point when it comes to nationalism
- Assad and Putin are leftists
- Killing millions of people is necessary for a better world
- The socialist state must uphold “traditional values”
- “Socialist” police are a good thing because they don’t serve capital, they serve the people
- The only valid leftist theory is the one that argues Marxism-Leninism is correct
- Stalin exclusively killed Nazis
:::
I have run into people saying things like this:
::: spoiler spoiler
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Anarchism has never been tried successfully
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Anarchists are all children who don’t know better
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and I'll push back on it, but it's not a monolith, Marxists with decent enough social skills to not insult allies do exist
Animal farm is propaganda, by a social democrat with a clear agenda.
Believe it or not, these are almost never relevant to actual organizing work:
::: spoiler spoiler
- China is communist or will be communist by 2050
- Ukraine is a Nazi state who deserves to be invaded
- Russia taking children from Ukraine and relocating them is just them being nice and removing them out of the warzone
- States are 100% necessary for the development of socialism
:::
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No. I've seen marxist-leninists, maoists, and anyone in that area of thought arguing the following:
- LGBTQ+ identities are bourgeois degeneracy
- Trans people are a capitalist invention to divide workers
- Nazis have a point when it comes to nationalism
- Assad and Putin are leftists
- Anarchism has never been tried successfully (because every time someone tried they got betrayed by MLs and executed by them for wrongthink)
- Animal Farm is capitalist propaganda
- Killing millions of people is necessary for a better world
- States are 100% necessary for the development of socialism
- China is communist or will be communist by 2050
- Ukraine is a Nazi state who deserves to be invaded
- Russia taking children from Ukraine and relocating them is just them being nice and removing them out of the warzone
- Anarchists are all children who don't know better
- The socialist state must uphold "traditional values"
- Stalin exclusively killed Nazis
- The only valid leftist theory is the one that argues Marxism-Leninism is correct
- "Socialist" police are a good thing because they don't serve capital, they serve the people
- Leftists who don't agree with us are enemies of the revolution and should be enslaved because they will attempt to overthrow our successful socialist state
If you think ANY of those arguments are valid for leftism, then I'm sorry, but I don't want you around me.
Is possible, just maybe, that you've been talking to trolls posing as communists, rather than actual communists? Because that's what it sounds like.
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It assumes infighting is the reason why we can't coalesce around a single candidate but the real reason why that isn't happening is because the DNC keeps backing right wing candidates who don't represent any of us.
That wouldn't really matter if we coalesced behind the candidates we want in the primary.
Except when the DNC doesn't like that candidate so they put their thumb on the scale to ensure they don't win. Why else do you think we keep getting the same handful of candidates? Clinton, Clinton, Gore, Kerry, Obama, Obama, Clinton, Biden, Biden, Harris. Do you not see the pattern here? They want a dynasty in control not the people with the best ideas.
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The more nuanced communists understand that the past doesn’t have to define the future 1:1, but they also have the uphill battle of people agreeing with everything they say, until they actually mention the word “communism,” thanks to decades of propaganda.
It's not only decades of propaganda.
Whether you like it or not, but many countries have suffered enourmosly (genocides, extermination of local language and culture) under the banner of regimes that claimed to represent communist ideals and allegedly aimed to develop a communist society.
I was born in the tail end of the USSR, so I honestly don't really remember it. But from the stories of my parents and relatives, it was trash.
You can't just dismiss the association between the USSR and attempts at achieving communism.
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How does that work in the opposite direction, though? Republicans are protecting pedophiles and labelling truth as opinion, all whilst dehumanizing fellow Americans.
Tell me, how does one meet in the middle with such a monster?
You pretend, for a little while, then slowly introduce truth to them drip by drip. Like an undercover propaganda agent.
Since that's probably what they're doing to us.
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[dude with glasses in a communist t-shirt, arguing]
I'm the only leftist here, your opinions are TRASH[dude holding a theory book on smug, arguing]
Read theory you losers, you're all WRONG[dude in an anarchist hoodie, arguing]
Nuh-uh, I'm the only leftist here, you're SHITLIBS[the three dudes are now caught in a cartoon fight, glasses gone flying, punches everywhere, while a firing squad of nazis are targeting them with rifles]
[a confused nazi asks]
Why… why are they still arguing?
Infighting | The Bad Website
Infighting - A comic on The Bad Website
The Bad Website (thebad.website)
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[dude with glasses in a communist t-shirt, arguing]
I'm the only leftist here, your opinions are TRASH[dude holding a theory book on smug, arguing]
Read theory you losers, you're all WRONG[dude in an anarchist hoodie, arguing]
Nuh-uh, I'm the only leftist here, you're SHITLIBS[the three dudes are now caught in a cartoon fight, glasses gone flying, punches everywhere, while a firing squad of nazis are targeting them with rifles]
[a confused nazi asks]
Why… why are they still arguing?
Infighting | The Bad Website
Infighting - A comic on The Bad Website
The Bad Website (thebad.website)
Talking Nazi has his armband on the wrong arm AND the swastika is backwards, and the ones holding the guns are wearing the armbands near their wrists.
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Except when the DNC doesn't like that candidate so they put their thumb on the scale to ensure they don't win. Why else do you think we keep getting the same handful of candidates? Clinton, Clinton, Gore, Kerry, Obama, Obama, Clinton, Biden, Biden, Harris. Do you not see the pattern here? They want a dynasty in control not the people with the best ideas.
A thumb on the scale wouldn't really matter if we were united. They put their thumb on the scale with Mamdani and he won anyway.
Why else do you think we keep getting the same handful of candidates?
Because primary turnout is something like 15% of eligible voters, who are disproportionately old and "centrist".
Do you not see the pattern here? They want a dynasty in control not the people with the best ideas.
I'm not saying that this is false, I'm just saying it wouldn't matter if we quit the infighting, rallied behind a good prospect, and actually showed up to vote for them as the Democratic candidate.
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You pretend, for a little while, then slowly introduce truth to them drip by drip. Like an undercover propaganda agent.
Since that's probably what they're doing to us.
There aren't enough showers in the world to wash off the shame of any part of that interaction.
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Talking Nazi has his armband on the wrong arm AND the swastika is backwards, and the ones holding the guns are wearing the armbands near their wrists.
TFW you worked so hard on little details but didn't take into account the big details…
whoops
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TFW you worked so hard on little details but didn't take into account the big details…
whoops
️Most Nazis are idiots, especially modern Nazis trying to emulate German ones. So it actually fits!
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I think the premise here is flawed. It assumes infighting is the reason why we can't coalesce around a single candidate but the real reason why that isn't happening is because the DNC keeps backing right wing candidates who don't represent any of us. Too many people are under the false belief that being a Democratic politician makes one the "good guy" in the face of "evil Republicans" when in reality we've just been given two Republican candidates to choose from at the ballot box for quite some time now. They all work for the same masters and don't give a shit about fixing this broken country. They aren't two different sides, they're all on the same side against the American people.
wrote last edited by [email protected]I'm not from the USA and I'm tired of US politics 🥺
The current rise of the far right in my country started two decades ago, in part because of leftist infighting. I'm not going to point any fingers, I was guilty of infighting on that day too. It was so unexpected, nobody thought the far right could beat any of the leftist candidates… many lessons were learned that day.
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Most Nazis are idiots, especially modern Nazis trying to emulate German ones. So it actually fits!
Lore accurate explanation I'll use if anyone else asks, thanks!
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It's not only decades of propaganda.
Whether you like it or not, but many countries have suffered enourmosly (genocides, extermination of local language and culture) under the banner of regimes that claimed to represent communist ideals and allegedly aimed to develop a communist society.
I was born in the tail end of the USSR, so I honestly don't really remember it. But from the stories of my parents and relatives, it was trash.
You can't just dismiss the association between the USSR and attempts at achieving communism.
I’ve talked to a handful of people that lived through that era in Russia and none of them had positive things to say. They were all working class folks. I trust their judgment over someone on the internet, and I don’t get sucked into team sports identity type shit. We can pick and choose the good ideas and acknowledge the shitty ones.
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I am aware of that. I'm just like... I see a lot of "leftists" that think "successful socialist projects" have to replicate the USSR 100% with everything good and bad about it mixed in. If your definition of "building a better world" is killing or enslaving people for disagreeing with you, you are not a leftist, you're a nazbol.
And like, the USSR clearly does not exist anymore, and for most of its existence it made a joke out of socialist principles.
We’ve also seen years of what Russia in its current state and Putin are capable of. None of it is good. Hell, when I was more active in activist circles I was in very close proximity to a Russian-driven disinformation campaign in 2016 that used and exploited leftist organizations for its own benefit. It wasn’t some “hey, we’re friends” situation; it was the Kremlin using and disposing of people to destabilize in the same way the US and western powers have for decades themselves. Hitching your wagon to other political powers is a shit idea. There is a reason I don’t trust any politician.
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I’ve talked to a handful of people that lived through that era in Russia and none of them had positive things to say. They were all working class folks. I trust their judgment over someone on the internet, and I don’t get sucked into team sports identity type shit. We can pick and choose the good ideas and acknowledge the shitty ones.
That's my point. USSR and the CCP have arguably permanently damaged the communism "brand".
And you talked to russians, things were even worse for nations occupied by the russians.
