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If You Needed to Pass an Exam to Vote

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  • S [email protected]

    “Educated” does not equal intelligent, and it certainly does not imply broad intelligence. You can train a relatively stupid human being to do all kinds of stuff and if you’ve ever worked with people with degrees you know what little value they carry.

    I went to college and have white collar career and my family is largely university educated. I worked with structural engineers at my last job and half them were just barely able to do their jobs with the worst ones being the senior people. Elsewhere in the world there have been anti-vax doctors and nurses, psychotic therapists, and theologians who have read the bible who still do all the horrible things they definitely know are bullshit. I bet nearly half the people here on Lemmy know a software developer or three who shouldn’t ever touch a computer. People with degrees are more likely to be more intelligent but, especially while living in a world where they’re basically expected, that’s really just not a guarantee.

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    wrote last edited by [email protected]
    #191

    Even people who are actually smart buy into fascism, though. It's not just a question of dumb vs intelligent, but of ethics.

    S 1 Reply Last reply
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    • sxan@midwest.socialS [email protected]

      Yup. Same in the States.

      People are fundamentally selfish; sometimes, that selfishness extends to their family, and rarely, to their immediate community. But rarely will people vote for something that has a direct negative impact on their own interests but which benefits the majority. Smart, educated, dumb, ignorant; the tendency is toward selfishness.

      Education and intelligence influences empathy, and can impart greater long-term thinking, but it doesn't guarantee it. As stupid as we may believe Bezos and Musk to be, they're clearly educated, and act selfishly, like the majority of the 1%.

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      wrote last edited by
      #192

      Arguably the educated and intelligent are more likely to profit from fascism (to an extent), anyway - they're going to do the oppressing, while most workers are going to be on the 'being oppressed' side.

      1 Reply Last reply
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      • D [email protected]

        Humans in 2025 are...well, mostly horrible. So if we're working with this stock, it's never going to work. It's more of an idea that works really well AFTER the morons die from COVID/etc. because they refused to wear a mask unless that mask let them brutalize brown folks. Long-term, I think it's in idea we shouldn't bin (as a species). But it absolutely won't work TODAY.

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        wrote last edited by
        #193

        That kind of sounds like we won't need it anymore if we're developed enough to be able to implement it well.

        D 1 Reply Last reply
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        • tattorack@lemmy.worldT [email protected]

          Then don't do that.

          Give everyone, and I mean everyone, a standard fifth grade test. It would not surprise me one bit if the highest failure rate of such a test comes from the large swath of redneck nitwits there exist over in America.

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          wrote last edited by
          #194

          Who writes the test?

          Who determines the test is at a fifth grade level?

          Who will proctor the test?

          Where will the test be administered?

          When will the test be administered?

          Who decides what a passing grade is?

          Who grades the test?

          Who verifies the grade on the test?

          At every step there is an easy way to disenfranchise whatever people you don’t like. For instance: simply make the test only available at noon on the Monday before election. Make it only able to be taken at town hall. Immediately, anyone who works an hourly job will no be effectively disqualified from voting because they can’t take the test.

          Now make the exam only available in English. Anyone who cannot speak English is now disqualified.

          There are so many ways for literacy tests to go wrong, they’re pretty much only good for excluding people you don’t like from voting. Just let everyone vote and make it a mandatory holiday.

          captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.worksC 1 Reply Last reply
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          • B [email protected]
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            wrote last edited by
            #195

            InB4 the Non-Voters just start doing the Wilmington Massacre repeatedly.

            Check your history books about what happens when the majority of the population has no political voice. Things get ugly.

            1 Reply Last reply
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            • K [email protected]

              The problem there is the administration of the tests, not the tests themselves.

              tdawg@lemmy.worldT This user is from outside of this forum
              tdawg@lemmy.worldT This user is from outside of this forum
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              wrote last edited by
              #196

              you think the current racist rich people wouldn't be racist and rich if we introduced an exam to the voting process?

              K 1 Reply Last reply
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              • tdawg@lemmy.worldT [email protected]

                you think the current racist rich people wouldn't be racist and rich if we introduced an exam to the voting process?

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                wrote last edited by
                #197

                I think the qualifying questions could be attached to the ballot and submitted anonymously.

                Race should not be discernable ... in theory.

                S J _thisdot@infosec.pub_ 3 Replies Last reply
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                • R [email protected]

                  There are certain things like voting that should have bare minimum entry requirements. (Proof of ID, lack of felony charges)

                  IMO, felony charges are another tool of deliberate voter disenfranchisement, since the US justice system is clearly racist and has a shit ton of convictions compared to the EU (most countries, really - the US prison population per capita is one of the highest in the world). Lack of felony charges should probably be a requirement for being elected, but at this point they might start trying to use it for this, too.

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                  wrote last edited by
                  #198

                  I agree. I would actually like to see a 100% voter turnout from within prisons. Not only should we not strip that right, but it should be available for citizens while incarcerated as well. Seems easy to do.

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                  • B [email protected]
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                    wrote last edited by
                    #199

                    Except the candidates would all be garbage anyways haha

                    A 1 2 Replies Last reply
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                    • tattorack@lemmy.worldT [email protected]

                      Not even close. And I find it racist of you to assume that a minority is somehow incapable of passing an exam.

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                      wrote last edited by
                      #200

                      No in the past black people here in America weren't allowed to be educated or learn to read. When they gained voting rights none of them knew how to read well so the racist made a law saying you have to pass a reading test or some shit so they couldn't vote.

                      You can't just look at the current situation and make rules based on that you have to look at it wholeistically. Not being able to read doesn't mean you are stupid. There are lots of reasons someone might fail a test but still be intelligent enough to vote and make a good informed choice.

                      S 1 Reply Last reply
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                      • K [email protected]

                        I think the qualifying questions could be attached to the ballot and submitted anonymously.

                        Race should not be discernable ... in theory.

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                        wrote last edited by
                        #201

                        Aside from the existing deficit due to hundreds of years of systemic discrimination you mean?

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                        • Z [email protected]

                          Who writes the test?

                          Who determines the test is at a fifth grade level?

                          Who will proctor the test?

                          Where will the test be administered?

                          When will the test be administered?

                          Who decides what a passing grade is?

                          Who grades the test?

                          Who verifies the grade on the test?

                          At every step there is an easy way to disenfranchise whatever people you don’t like. For instance: simply make the test only available at noon on the Monday before election. Make it only able to be taken at town hall. Immediately, anyone who works an hourly job will no be effectively disqualified from voting because they can’t take the test.

                          Now make the exam only available in English. Anyone who cannot speak English is now disqualified.

                          There are so many ways for literacy tests to go wrong, they’re pretty much only good for excluding people you don’t like from voting. Just let everyone vote and make it a mandatory holiday.

                          captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.worksC This user is from outside of this forum
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                          [email protected]
                          wrote last edited by
                          #202

                          It's almost like we've run this experiment before at massive scale in real world conditions, and that experiment yielded data.

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                          • K [email protected]

                            I think the qualifying questions could be attached to the ballot and submitted anonymously.

                            Race should not be discernable ... in theory.

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                            wrote last edited by
                            #203

                            The tests never explicitly directly measured race nor required the voters name. They can design the tests to discriminate all sorts of ways based on the content.

                            K 1 Reply Last reply
                            2
                            • K [email protected]

                              I think the qualifying questions could be attached to the ballot and submitted anonymously.

                              Race should not be discernable ... in theory.

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                              wrote last edited by
                              #204

                              Everyone affected by the policy decisions of the land should get to vote. No matter their race, literacy or political belief

                              K L 2 Replies Last reply
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                              • tattorack@lemmy.worldT [email protected]

                                Not even close. And I find it racist of you to assume that a minority is somehow incapable of passing an exam.

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                                wrote last edited by
                                #205

                                You can design the exam to the purpose, and race isn't even the only factor to worry about. Maybe they claim a voter needs to prove financial literacy with advanced questions about various investment options that aren't relevant to the lower class.

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                                • B [email protected]
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                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #206

                                  Brazil had something like that in the early republic days, only literate people could vote. Needless to say, only the robber baron elites kept getting elected, also thanks to the significant amount of fraud that happened. "The election is won during the counting"

                                  B 1 Reply Last reply
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                                  • softestsapphic@lemmy.worldS [email protected]

                                    Voting should be mandatory, punished by like a $200 fine for non voters.

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                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #207

                                    I don't know about a fine, but it should be more effort to not vote than to vote. That way the people who are determined not to vote still have an out that doesn't involve violence.

                                    M 1 Reply Last reply
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                                    • J [email protected]

                                      No, it's more saying that media outlets convince people that they (the viewer) are the ones in the right, they are the ones in the know, and everyone else is dumb essentially.

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                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #208

                                      That's also a trap but I think the quote refers to something else.

                                      J 1 Reply Last reply
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                                      • R [email protected]

                                        Even people who are actually smart buy into fascism, though. It's not just a question of dumb vs intelligent, but of ethics.

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                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #209

                                        We have govs and gobs and gobs of research that show that the best forward for everyone is cooperation. In fact, a lot of that research explicitly shows that the least ethical approaches are often the worst ones by nearly every metric except for “gives a handful of the wrong people way too much power”.

                                        It’s like the four day work week and how we know it’s better not only for employee happiness but also for productivity and talent retention. We know that paying people fairly means that people can actually afford to buy the products we sell. We know that GDP is a bad measure of economic strength and that the most robust economies are those where a lot of smaller amounts change hands frequently. We as a species know all this, and anyone I would consider intelligent would have picked up on these patterns even if they weren’t explicitly told but they ARE being told, over and over again.

                                        We need a new measure of what intelligence is but anything qualitative instead of quantitative is incredibly difficult for most people to grasp and they end worshipping the worst people who have stuff regardless of how they got it. I have the same diploma as my classmates and most of them shouldn’t be allowed anywhere near building design; pointing out my ability to graduate from a program even they could graduate from is not worth that much.

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                                        • J [email protected]

                                          I don't know about a fine, but it should be more effort to not vote than to vote. That way the people who are determined not to vote still have an out that doesn't involve violence.

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                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #210

                                          Continue to allow blank-ballot to be a legal vote (as it is today). Nobody has to vote if they don't want, and now if you're trying to do a protest-abstain it actually gets noticed.

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