When a Christian Makes Contact with an Atheist
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Hmm. I'm going to go ahead and assume this is a bad-faith comment. Despite that, I'll try to help.
I'm guessing from the phrasing that you're not aware, but if you're trying to change someone's belief system, it's called conversion.
I appreciate that you were probably trying to do the "atheism isn't a belief, it's a lack of a belief" thing, but unfortunately that's how the language works in this case.
That is a) not how the language works and b) an atheist would never try to convince anyone about anything religious. Aka: convert. Because that would mean for him Atheism is a religion, which it is not.
I am an Atheist. My inner self is convinced: there are not gods. And that is it. I do not try to make you go away from your god. And I myself: have no god. There is no church or cult of Atheism. there is no organization (perhaps in weird countries there are, who knows?), there is no path to follow, there is no morning or evening or any other ritual, there are no prayers, there is most certainly no evangelism towards Atheism. -
The distinction is just semantics in my mind, too, yeah. I hold the same position as agnostics, in that I do not believe this whole god concept can be disproven, because it is not rigorously formulated like a scientific thesis.
But I put that as "I do not believe that there is a god" and respectively I call myself an atheist, because well, there's many other things which cannot be disproven, like for example Big Foot.
And if a kid were to ask me, whether Big Foot exists, I'm not going to lead with "we really can't know". That's just misleading.
I guess, agnostics differentiate between gods and Big Foot, because there's so many more people who are convinced of these gods' existence. But yeah, I don't do that either, because I've seen how many people are willing to believe climate change isn't real. Lots of people believing something is just not an argument to me anymore.Neither atheism nor any "real religion" has to do anything with proving.
Agnostics: there might be a god, but I do not know ... never saw one! Does that count?
Atheist: I am convinced there are no gods (but can not prove it: how the funk do you prove a non existing?) Bottom line, I do not care. Just like an Agnostics, I am just convinced and he leaves it open to surprise, when he dies ... or when ever he meets a god(dess).And I most certainly have not any desire to convince a believer that his believes are BS. Because: I am an Atheist: I do not fucking care about his/her believes!!
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Idk, Catholic services and practices are waaaay cultier than protestant ones. I mean, they all have pictures in their homes of the same white guy wearing a giant ceremonial hat and robe who lives in his own special nation. As a firm agnostic, I don't have a horse in this race, but my experience differs greatly from yours. They're all mild hobbyists compared to evangelicals anyway.
Cultish practices vary from church to church, but there's way more protestant cults than catholic ones.
And I mean proper cults, where they know how loony they seem, so they try to seem more normal to potential members. Then they love bomb newcomers, before inviting them to the special wednesday meetings where they promise supernatural powers if the newcomer is humiliated before the group and love bombed again when they're most vulnerable. Last step is making them cut ties with non-believers and ostracizing any apostates.
Catholic King making infallible decrees is harmless compared to that.
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My experience has been the exact opposite!
I suspect it's a cultural thing, though. I'm British, but I know America has a very aggressive evangelical base. There are mega-churches and politicians and sports people are always talking about God and Jesus and we just don't have that over here.
On the other hand, a few atheists I know have tried to "convert" me before.
I'm guessing it's a certainty thing. From what I've seen of the American churches, some of them are absolutely borderline cults. So of course the folk are certain that they're right.
And there's certainly enough ammunition in religion as a whole for anyone who hates religion to think that they're right.
"there's certainly enough ammunition in religion as a whole for anyone who hates religion to think that they're right."
Is a crazy way to phrase "there is evidence that supports their views"
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Cultish practices vary from church to church, but there's way more protestant cults than catholic ones.
And I mean proper cults, where they know how loony they seem, so they try to seem more normal to potential members. Then they love bomb newcomers, before inviting them to the special wednesday meetings where they promise supernatural powers if the newcomer is humiliated before the group and love bombed again when they're most vulnerable. Last step is making them cut ties with non-believers and ostracizing any apostates.
Catholic King making infallible decrees is harmless compared to that.
Yeah, those are tiny. There are millions and millions of Catholics in every nook and cranny of the Western world, and plenty of Eastern crannies as well. The previous POTUS, often called the "leader of the free world" was Catholic. If you think the opinion of the Vatican holds no sway over the course of society, you must have never seen any videos or photographs of the massive hoards of people standing beneath the papal balcony all the fucking time, just trying to get a glimpse of some geriatric virgin in a stupid outfit giving a pointless speech in a language they probably don't understand. Confession is basically just emotional blackmail and psychic self-flagellation, not to mention they famously created the biggest pedophilia ring in known human history. Idk dude, seems pretty bad. And this is without even looking at the Wikipedia page, I can't imagine the innumerable horrors committed on humankind over the last two millennia in the name, and by the power, of the Catholic Church.
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"there's certainly enough ammunition in religion as a whole for anyone who hates religion to think that they're right."
Is a crazy way to phrase "there is evidence that supports their views"
Not really. It's an observation that most religions have some dogmatic and scriptural aspects that can be seen as either absurd or abhorrent.
Most large religions have been co-opted at some point in history by powerful people to do some terrible things.
If you were anti-religion, there's a lot of things to take shots at.
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"What do you mean? He watches me from the corner every time I'm masturbating."
Should've gone full nuclear: "Jesus watches while I fuck your daughter from behind"
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The Christian belief is as trivially obviously fake as Zeus and has done a lot of harm
No shit.
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Oh you are? Ok enjoy your block
Anarchy is just a stepping stone to fascism, grow up
My what?
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It always starts from the assumption that I'm an atheist too. They're all friends, by the way, so don't picture some kind of weird high-pressure pitches on the street.
Also I want to make it clear that I'm not trying to conflate being atheist and being anti-religious - my friend in this story however is in the "religion is ultimately the cause of every war in history" camp.
Anyway, very basically, I'd done something nice. Another work friend was talking about it, and my anti-religion friend responded with "see, he's an objectively nice person, no religion needed or anything". And it was at this point I revealed my secret identity, and the discussion began.
Just for balance, over my 44 years, I've also had a Scientology pitch, a Jehovah's Witnesses pitch (old-school knocking on the door style), and an uncomfortably high-pressure pitch from what I'm sure was one of those churches set up to scam immigrants.
But outside of those, the main people who have tried to change me have been friends with strong anti-religious views.
Ah, yes, well. Many people see the root of all evil not in money, but in organized religion, and that's sometimes hard to emotionally separate from the (perceived) irrationality of capital-R religion. So, yeah: in friend groups, I can see debates about religion that veer into proselytizing, although -- again -- people generally don't preach to the already-converted except in sectarian wars, which in the US have subsided as religious communities have solidified against the greater threat of atheism.
I grant, in any case, that even atheism can have strong advocates who try to convert people. I do think that it depends on who you are: being an athiest, I've never had an athiest pressure me about my religious beliefs, and have only been prosthelytized to by Christians... but that's to be expected, right?
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ITT: The most obnoxious type of fedora-wearing atheism. Makes me feel nostalgic for early reddit...
Oh did I say nostalgic? I meant nauseous.
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Catholics, christians, atheism, veganism.
It's all the same to me. If they don't leave any room to speculate, learn, and grow beyond existing beliefs what's the point of living.
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Catholics, christians, atheism, veganism.
It's all the same to me. If they don't leave any room to speculate, learn, and grow beyond existing beliefs what's the point of living.
What's the point of living if you can't find purpose and there's no real truth
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ITT: The most obnoxious type of fedora-wearing atheism. Makes me feel nostalgic for early reddit...
Oh did I say nostalgic? I meant nauseous.
I find the fedora bois on here
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Cultish practices vary from church to church, but there's way more protestant cults than catholic ones.
And I mean proper cults, where they know how loony they seem, so they try to seem more normal to potential members. Then they love bomb newcomers, before inviting them to the special wednesday meetings where they promise supernatural powers if the newcomer is humiliated before the group and love bombed again when they're most vulnerable. Last step is making them cut ties with non-believers and ostracizing any apostates.
Catholic King making infallible decrees is harmless compared to that.
It's debatable if those cults are even protestant (some don't even fall under historical Christianity) as protestants are continuing groups that came out of the reformation, believing the Roman Church erred (Think Episcopal/Anglican, Presbyterian, Lutherans, Moravians, etc. They all stem from the pre reformation Catholic Church), while a lot of culty groups are like "yeah the past 2000 years the church was wrong so we are starting over again" (restorationists). But even them, some groups are still recognisably Christian (Baptists, most Pentecostals, non denomonational) believing in the historical Christian doctrine of the Trinity and the sacraments. Then you get the spinoff groups such as Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses. And then there are the in betweeners such as Quakers and SDAdventists where it's debatable.
Okay I'm just infodumping now. This isn't relevant.
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Idk, Catholic services and practices are waaaay cultier than protestant ones. I mean, they all have pictures in their homes of the same white guy wearing a giant ceremonial hat and robe who lives in his own special nation. As a firm agnostic, I don't have a horse in this race, but my experience differs greatly from yours. They're all mild hobbyists compared to evangelicals anyway.
Then you get Anglicans and Lutherans which are Protestants but have Catholic practices
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I grew up Christian in a place where most people were atheist, went to a Christian school, where about half the students were Christian and the other was atheist, then moved to different places all over. My experience through all of that was always: Regular people in either group mostly don't give a shit and just want to live their own lives. The "Christians" you see on TV are not normal people.
I am a Christian and figured that out as well. I just see it as an American problem. But it's concerning seeing churches perform Bethel/Hillsong/Elevation music not realising how sketchy those places are. I worry it's a wolf in sheep's clothing, that people will maybe see some Hillsong or bethel teaching and think "they must be reputable, as we sing their music in Church!"
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The weird shit on tv is incredibly common in the south
I still think it's proportionally right to say "that's not normal". Maybe it's normal in the Southern United States, but it's definitely not normal compared with the rest of Christendom.
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I'm a Christian pastor happily married to an atheist, AMA.
Were you a Christian before you married her? Were you a pastor at that point?
Also, what denomination/church do you belong to
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Do you believe your wife will go to hell?
No. I don't believe in all that âyou have to confess Jesus as your personal lord and saviour to avoid hellâ crap. It's in fact something not very widespread outside evangelicalism. I believe the Cross is working mysteriously, far outside the frontier of the visible Church. A God who condemns people that doesn't recognize him is not a loving God, it's a pervert. I believe that âto confess Jesus as my personal lord and saviourâ is a way to live a better life here and now, and I don't expect an eternal reward for that.
Is she agnostic or does she believe there is no god?
I'd say she's agnostic atheist. She doesn't know if God exist, but believes he does not, and in fact doesn't care.
But if someone is an atheist and doesn't want anything to do with God, won't God respect their decision?
