@thelinuxEXP Believe me, I understand what you mean, but language still has history and context behind it, regardless of what a word has come to mean.
My wife is French, and is also disabled, and as a result knows that the etymological origin of the word comes from a disparaging term used against disabled people.
Now I _know_ that's not how you intended it to come across, especially as we consider how language changes over time, but we also can't necessarily extricate that origin from the word.
@thelinuxEXP For example, whilst 'lunatic' and 'cretin' may not have had the direct intent to cause hurt, they have an ableist origin that myself and the system you responded to have very specific and negative experiences and understandings of.
I think, again, it comes back to a point of de-escalating these kinds of things, avoiding language that can be interpreted in such a way, and bringing the discussion back to something intersectional and constructive.
@thelinuxEXP Ah, this comes back to my point then. Our interpretations differ because of our lived experiences, both of which are valid.
As a queer and disabled person myself, I deeply sympathise with the system that angrily responded about the name, because I too have experienced and seen how these words are weaponised against us.
It's, again, not meant to be a call-out, but a point of gaining additional insight to experiences beyond our own.
@thelinuxEXP Alas, whether you intended to or not, your language did, unfortunately, come off in such a way.
I don't mean this to be a call-out in any way, because, yes, sometimes there's little we can do, but I do think we owe it to ourselves, our community and our peers, to focus on calm and inclusive discussion, especially when it revolves around a controversial topic. De-escalation can lead to meaningful insights from those who are often under represented.
@thelinuxEXP Yeah, and I believe that's something that's been lost in the sauce of this thread.
The name has been an issue for a long time, and people understandably want to bring that to a greater focus now that this major update is finished.
I think there is space to not only congratulate the team on their amazing work, whilst also remaining steadfast about existing issues that have surrounded the project in that time.
@thelinuxEXP It's fair to dismiss a rude reply, I'm not disputing that, but they raised a point regarding the ableist nature of the term that was largely met with a shrug, which in turn spiralled into using other terms that didn't help matters.
Not trying to argue over this point specifically, but I think this is indicative of why this topic of discussion has been incendiary - many other disabled and queer people have brought this up before, and have been met with similar dismissal
@thelinuxEXP It's fair to argue that we should be supporting Gimp after such a monumental release, and I'm absolutely there congratulating them! I think it's wonderful to see the result of so much hard work, and I want the project to see continued success and support.
But we also need to consider wider and intersectional issues too, as these challenges will no doubt come under greater focus after such a large and important release.
@thelinuxEXP In plenty of discussions, Gimp has been avoided _because_ of the name. It is an immutable fact that the name has played a large role in not being adopted in institutions and organisations, because of the connotations a name like that carries.
The feature set doesn't really matter, because regardless of how advanced a suite Gimp becomes, the name will be enough of a point of friction to prevent wider adoption.
@thelinuxEXP When referring to being dismissive, I primarily mean how you conducted a reply to another account which raised similar issues to myself.
Again, I don't think people are doing this because they want to see the project fail, or don't believe it's deserving of praise and support - if anything, concerns over the name being raised are a clear sign of wanting the project to succeed beyond a niche user base.
@thelinuxEXP On a side note, Nick, I respect your work on The Linux Experiment, but I think your conduct in this thread has maybe come off as a little too confrontational and dismissive of the real and valid concerns raised, in particular from community members where the language used _does_ have a direct and negative impact.
@thelinuxEXP And that's not to pit different projects against each other! Both can coexist and support one another, and that's a wonderful thing.
But I really do think the team and community need to take a long look at the name and what it possibly communicates, because this stubbornness to effectively ignore the _many_ issues raised does nothing to garner good will.
@thelinuxEXP The team behind Gimp are in need of support and congratulations, especially after this monumental update, but there also needs to be a collective rethink and organisational effort to evaluate how the project is perceived outside the usual circles.
It's all fine and good that, us as FOSS and Linux users, we know what the acronym means and how it originated - but we _must_ consider the wider potential user base.
There is a reason why Krita is often recommended above GIMP.
@thelinuxEXP Priorities are no doubt important, but I think how a project is perceived is a major part of that.
Gimp, despite the best efforts of its community and devs, continues to not be regarded seriously, in no small part _because_ of the name, and there are plenty of documented examples and anecdotes where the app is derided because of said name.
Yes, the English language and the politics surrounding it aren't universal, but it's enough to make a dent in communities where it matters.
