Taps sign again...

Comma splice all 'round. 3/3.

"My own entitlement and vindictive emotional state is far more important than broad policy measures to make the best outcomes for the most people." - Tankies Nazis

edit: I will forever smirk that over a third of the people who read this felt "Well they don't understand that MY emotions are special, the unrealistic things I want are more important than any of those other things! How dare they equate my feelings with those of nazis, those creatures weren't even human, unlike me!"

Appreciate the info! Thank you.

The antidote to infighting in my experience is organizing in ideologically diverse spaces.

You are saying (correctly) that we need to organize in ways that appeal to more median voters, moderates, liberals and even conservatives around much broader initiatives that appeal to more populist ideas like wealth inequality, social programs to help poor neighborhoods, rebuilding infrastructure and creating more livable communities.

But people who read this are going to translate it as:

"They're saying I should reach out to the Green/Primitivist Anarchists I banned from my discord server" or "Maybe we should include the Orthodox Marxist–Leninists even though we hate them"

Or even worse: "HOW DARE HE SUGGEST I COMPROMISE WITH MY OPPRESSORS I WILL RIP THROATS OUT"

We all have to live next to each other even if we get the best policy results and I think everyone on either side forgets this. This isn't centerism, this is understanding that we have to rebuild together even if we don't share objective realities, we have no choice in the matter. I think too many people get stuck in their algorithmic ideology bubbles and think "the revolution/race war is coming, and everything will be great after."

Nobody is coming. Nobody is going to make it better. There is no secret cabal or underground movement, there will be no socialist revolution. What we see is what we get and if we want it better, we need to get a LOT better about getting our shitty emotions under control, learning to socialize and using our energy wisely.

First I agree that marxists are generally chill it's the hyphenated ones that typically are not. And because we can agree on that. I think we should be able to agree that they aren't who is being pictured above in the comic.

Perhaps it was misunderstanding, perhaps it was talking past each other. Either way fair enough.

Others get the same treatment. I can count plenty of times where I've been told similar because I post from a .world domain. The difference being, of course correct me if I am wrong. That our administrators don't tend to be as problematic. It isn't 2019 anymore. ML isn't the only server. If you are focused on organization and outreach. Maybe it's worth considering finding a new instance that would would help in fostering that.

As I syndicist I absolutely gave some thought about joining an instance that better reflected my sensibilities. Though some recent events have definitely made me reconsider on that. I honestly think I'm happy an a much more diverse platform. Even if on the fediverse our diversity is pretty homogenic.

Anytime. And as to your edit on the previous message always. Never just assume things to be true.

My whole point was about primaries, but even still he's polling well in the lead. If he wins will you admit that it can be done?

Winning a primary doesn't mean much if the party crushes you in the general. I hope he wins and I would be happy to admit I was wrong if he makes it and actually lives up to his word once in office.

Okay, what's your point? That the same population that's too apathetic to vote in a primary are going to what, pick up arms and take to the streets? Organize behind and promote a minority party? How do you plan to build a coalition behind an objectively more difficult and unlikely strategy? You don't.

Mamdani, and several other leftist candidates have been running exceptionally successful grassroots campaigns through social media and hitting the streets. We live in the information age, viral community-driven campaigns have the potential to reach more people than legacy media. And again, what alternative do you propose that will face less corporate opposition? You think the DNC is going to stay silent on third party candidates competing for their votes? You think corporate media is going to stay silent on any attempt at actual revolution? If the machine is so powerful, what action are you suggesting that can actually overcome it?

My point is that you're advocating for people to try and fix the system from within the broken system itself. Democratic and Republican primaries are completely controlled by these two private organizations not some overarching organization, people, or law. It's naive to think that you can somehow outplay the DNC (or RNC) leadership at a game they crafted and rigged themselves. It's like thinking you can outplay the house at a casino if you just use the right strategy. Even if you do somehow find a winning strategy, they'll just refuse to pay you, take you into the backroom, beat your ass, and then have police come haul you out for trespassing because the house always wins. You won't get better candidates by picking from the handful of predetermined candidates that the DNC offers you in their primary race whether 15% vote or 100% vote.

I don't know what the 'correct' approach is but I know it isn't this. Perhaps some actual grassroots organizations can put something together or an existing third party can take their placr, but regardless of what it is, it's not going to be something internal to these organizations, it has to come from the outside.

No I dont think the DNC or corporate media will ignore these events, they'll come out swinging like they did in 2008 with the Occupy Wall Street protests. They'll paint these outsiders as kooks and extremists and make them look like a joke on TV and the internet. You speak about the information age as if everyone is somehow more enlightened than generations past, yet we see people as a whole getting dumber and less informed as time goes on. We see the powerful using social media to spread a bunch of lies and disinformation. We see the truth being cast aside or drowned in a bunch of noise.

So long as elections in this country are FPTP, and leftists don't show up to primaries, and Republicans keep pushing Christo-fascism, then they are correct that it is the best option.

How are these people "the best option" in hindsight when we know for a fact that they lost the election? I find statements like this so utterly insane. You're referring to the very people that we unquestionably know weren't the best option by virtue of them losing these elections to a buffoon. This party of "the best options" were so 'good' that the Republicans control the entire government now.

Splitting the anti-Republican vote just helps the Republicans, and by extension the Heritage Foundation and Federalist Society. Personally, I'd rather have a Neo-Liberal government than a Christian Nationalist one, and there aren't any other options right now.

This is just the "vote blue no matter who" mentality i previously referred to phrased another way. Neo-Liberal governments have driven us to this point alongside the Christian Nationalists. They're both responsible for this and they're the ones determining the options we have. I legitimately cannot understand how someone like yourself can agree that we have terrible options while simultaneously arguing that we need to support the people determining said options. It'd be like going to a grocery store filled with rancid food and telling yourself that you need to choose something off the shelf because that particular store left you no other options. Why would you do that? Why reward that store with your hard earned money? It's such incredibly closed-minded behavior that harms your own self interests and not only are you advocating that you should shop there personally, but everyone else should too.

No disagreement here, but where's the incinerator and the power to throw them in it? If I had a magic wand that I could wave to erase both parties, I would. But I don't have that kind of magic wand, and neither do you. We have to operate in the environment we actually exist in. Idealism doesn't get us any closer to material change. Voting against the worst option is the best choice we have at the polls, until we can get seriously organized. Serious organization takes a lot of time and effort. Ignoring the material present for a vague idealist future is a massive strategic blunder.

The incinerator is your vote and what you decide to do with it. The environment we exist in isn't limited to these two private parties. That's just what they want you to believe. Sacrificing your ideals just to be disappointed and have things get worse because neo-liberals don't serve the American people isnt going to bring material change either. Doing the same thing every election isnt going to bring about change. Constantly "voting against the worst option" just means the next worse option can safely ignore you and refuse to improve things because they have you convinced that they're your only choice and therefore have no accountability to anyone. I'd argue that someone in your position is "ignoring the material present for some vague idealistic future." You think if the Dems can just win this next election they'll turn things around and eventually the Republicans will scurry off somewhere, but we've seen numerous times that even with a Democratic supermajority, they have no interest in fixing things and Republicans aren't going anywhere because they're doing the exact same thing to their base.

It's a lot harder to organize as a political prisoner in a concentration camp.

And regardless of which party wins any given election, we've been steadily approaching that reality with each passing day. Seems like a great wakeup call that some actual change is needed, no?

It is possible to reach them. But it is one of the most Herculean tasks you will ever undertake.

If we're talking about the stereotypical cartoon characters that you see hired by Jubilee to drive up hate and "engagement" then yes, they are real and they are almost impossible to exist around.

But they're not the majority of people who identify as "conservative" or to be more correct, they don't tend to identify as anything. The large swath of America's conservative movement has been just uninformed people who work all day and night and don't even have time to watch the news and believe earnestly that one out of five people are now trans and they're trying to shape public policy... because this is the reporting they see on their two hours of downtime they get on Sunday night while scrolling Facebook. These are the tens of millions of people who say "I didn't know who to vote for, I would have voted for Bernie if he ran, but I picked Trump just to see if he would be better than Harris, at least he's gonna do something about [problem X]."

If you want to change people and reach hearts and minds, you become better at socializing, you make people like you, then you introduce actual progressive politics to them slowly and gently, starting with class-consciousness. Teach people where their tax money goes first and you will create Marx's greatest warriors in a week.

I was a conservative, I found my way on my own but I have reached many people, I have turned many people to community consciousness and equality and even equity, because I know what it really looks like, I understand that the stupid unwashed masses just need guideance and they fall so very fast.

This isn't infighting between liberals and leftists, this is infighting between different flavours of leftism, like anarchism and marxist-leninism.

It's shockingly easy to reach people of different political ideology if you view them as humans. Don't interact with the people who have punisher tattoos and roll coal, but that's not everyone right of center. Most conservatives are just ill-informed working people with no emotional intelligence or no capacity to care about larger problems than their next utility bill and resent progressive messaging because they're struggling so hard.

You can break through with class consciousness, almost every conservative I've talked to, and turned, started with educating them where their tax money goes, so get educated yourself how the tax code works, what the federal budget actually looks like, what your state's work laws are and such, and teach them why they can't afford food AND electricity some months.

You also need to be social and hospitable, do not have the intention of changing people, have the intention of teaching ONE thing and stick to it. This is what Bernie did for decades.

Edit: I will reemphasize for anyone reading down this far, PLEASE STOP TRYING TO CHANGE EVERYTHING. You're not going to get Bubba and Sheila down in the trailer by the scrapyard to suddenly start promoting trans rights and advocating for a free Tibet. Just let it go, our focus on micro-problems and social issues that don't impact the majority of people has been a deliberate sabotage of progressive movements to make people turn away. If we can turn people against Republican politics the rest falls in place and we get a better tomorrow, maybe not today but eventually and we have to start planting trees and stop expecting to have all our desires satisfied in our lifetimes.

Oh God yes Jubilee and that surrounded bs. Though the recent one with Jordan Peterson was somewhat cathartic. Yeah they get some of the most toxic ones.

Yep the majority of them are more like my brother-in-law or my SO. She at least realized back in February the mistake she made. Though I can understand it. As a military daughter who spent her life going from Base to Base as her father moved them around the world. Republican bullshit is sort of ingrained in her family. And she doesn't actually engage with a lot of the news personally. Instead it gets filtered to her through family.

Brother-in-law came from a privileged bougie family. They own a number of stores in the area. All the fancy tchotchkies as a child. Summers and other regular holidays throughout the year at the lake. Started out from 3rd and thought he made a home run. With a very similar story. Hereditary republicanism. No critical thinking. For One Shining Moment talking about how Democrats and Republicans both suck. On which we could agree. Only to inevitably return back to the Republican talking points. That situation is a whole other shit sandwich unfortunately though.

Yes, Unity cannot be enforced. Unity can only coexist with consent. And those that would violate consent to enforce Unity actually despise both.

You knew it was going there because the Democratic party refuses to listen to reason and continues to drift further and further rightto the point that we just had two candidates promoting genocide, attacking immigrants, attacking the poor, and palling around with Dick Cheney. It's funny that you'd rather attack the critics than dare speak out against the actual perpetrators of this abhorrent behavior. Attack the victim not the victimizer.

Democratic sycophants are becoming almost indistinguishable from their MAGA counterparts these days. You guys are all using the exact same language.

Get.Yourshit.Together. If you can’t bring yourself to vote for the DNC, and you can’t get anything else going, you’re wasting your own time and sinking the rest of us.

And what will you be doing in the meantime other than attacking those who actually want things to improve?

If you are focused on organization and outreach. Maybe it’s worth considering finding a new instance that would would help in fostering that.

I'm not trying to be glib, I don't think any instances are good for that, I use other platforms with more reach for that sort of thing.

I come here because I can see what other anarchists and Marxists are saying about the news and shoot the shit with them. Plus I can access the largest trans instances from here, I don't really have any ambitions beyond that.

Or Marxism and Marxist-leninist.

Say what you will about Democrats. Outside of the elected ones. Most of them don't have a strong ideology. Just actually wanting things to improve. But I'm sure of how to go about it. And when you approach them like that. Are plenty likely to be sympathetic and allies.

Just as a tangent, Jubilee and ALL the related content-farmers on Youtube, Tiktok and other social media platforms are radically skewing our own perceptions as well as that of the right. They are the enemy of our better tomorrow.

We're all getting lost down ideological, algorithmic bubble-worlds but the worlds look so different it's hard for us to identify that we're also being manipulated.

This is another area you can find common-ground with the right, and a way to get them to start realizing they're being played and cucked by corporate elites. (Use that language.)

Fair enough. I can do that as well. Just without all the domain baggage. And if it is something that bothers you. It's something to look at. Something I saw you actually cop to elsewhere on the topic.

Absolutely. None of us are immune to propaganda or our own biases.

And what will you be doing in the meantime other than attacking those who actually want things to improve?

What like accusing them of being soulless wholly-owned corporate shitlibs who are token opposition with their money-stained fingers on the scales, gladly supporting genocide, being the same as literal nazi fascists, and kicking down all the good-hearted people who want things to improve?

I mean . . . I could. But that just wouldn’t be very productive would it.