When a Christian Makes Contact with an Atheist
-
I grew up agnostic/atheist in the Bible Belt. There was a lot of casual discrimination, ostracism, and judgement if you weren't Christian. Even among different churches. I'd have loved for there have been more Christians like you, but unfortunately the TV/Fox News Christians are all over the place down there.
Yea. Those types don't just exist on TV, they are everyday people in our communities for some of us. To just say they aren't "normal" erases the lived experiences of those who live where these mentalities are still very much the norm for that locality.
-
My experience has been the exact opposite!
I suspect it's a cultural thing, though. I'm British, but I know America has a very aggressive evangelical base. There are mega-churches and politicians and sports people are always talking about God and Jesus and we just don't have that over here.
On the other hand, a few atheists I know have tried to "convert" me before.
I'm guessing it's a certainty thing. From what I've seen of the American churches, some of them are absolutely borderline cults. So of course the folk are certain that they're right.
And there's certainly enough ammunition in religion as a whole for anyone who hates religion to think that they're right.
I do live in the Bible belt.
-
Right? I've gotten "Aren't you worried about going to Hell?"
Just.... no.
Obviously not
-
Hmm. I'm going to go ahead and assume this is a bad-faith comment. Despite that, I'll try to help.
I'm guessing from the phrasing that you're not aware, but if you're trying to change someone's belief system, it's called conversion.
I appreciate that you were probably trying to do the "atheism isn't a belief, it's a lack of a belief" thing, but unfortunately that's how the language works in this case.
Nice deflection, bro. But my point was exactly that. You cannot "convert" someone to atheism. That would imply atheism is a belief, rather than the lack thereof. So my question stands.
-
This post did not contain any content.
Just venting...
Last year my partners mother stayed at our house for a long time (months). I felt constantly judged when I was around her, so I started to become reclusive. She started judging that too. I ended up falling into depression because I felt trapped in my own home.
The day before she left, she told me she hopes I find Jesus.
It took all my willpower not to snap.
-
This post did not contain any content.wrote last edited by [email protected]
Christians are indoctrinated from childhood to obey any authority that speaks the way their pastor does, and to ignore the evidence of their eyes and ears to believe what they are told.
So it's always awkward interacting with Christians, i can correct some of their shitty behavior by explaining how it would hurt them, but the conversation that their core beleifs are a control mechanism abused by conmen is impossible to broach.
It makes me sad because religion is so important to so many people, but it wouldn't be if they weren't indoctrinated against their will as children.
-
Do you believe your wife will go to hell?
No. I don't believe in all that “you have to confess Jesus as your personal lord and saviour to avoid hell” crap. It's in fact something not very widespread outside evangelicalism. I believe the Cross is working mysteriously, far outside the frontier of the visible Church. A God who condemns people that doesn't recognize him is not a loving God, it's a pervert. I believe that “to confess Jesus as my personal lord and saviour” is a way to live a better life here and now, and I don't expect an eternal reward for that.
Is she agnostic or does she believe there is no god?
I'd say she's agnostic atheist. She doesn't know if God exist, but believes he does not, and in fact doesn't care.
In many christian traditions the "confess Jesus as savior" can also be done after this life when standing before Jesus, basically at the gates of heaven. At that point it's really just a formality, and doing that right now instead of in the next life is exactly what you describe what it means to you: a way to live a better life right now.
-
This post did not contain any content.
I had the misfortune of needing to attend a "Christian" university for a short while due to visa reasons in the US, the vomit inducing cult speak they do at every opprtunity at a institute that's about education and science was appalling, imagine the kids who have to grow up in such an environment, no wonder the country is so fucked up right now
-
Nice deflection, bro. But my point was exactly that. You cannot "convert" someone to atheism. That would imply atheism is a belief, rather than the lack thereof. So my question stands.
wrote last edited by [email protected]Sorry, but it's true. I'm afraid you're going to have to take it up with a higher authority than me (i.e. the dictionary people) if you want to change how the word is used.
It's the word for changing someone's belief system not, as you seem to think, giving someone a new belief system.
Sorry, but I'm correct here.
Also, here's additional lesson for you - you started your reply admitting that the question was asked in bad faith, that I did spot what you were talking about, and that you do know that I'm talking about atheism. Then you finish with "so my question stands".
No it doesn't. You understood fully what I was talking about in both the post you replied to and my response. So it doesn't stand - you already knew the answer.
Look, I don't mind you having a crack at being Mr I'm-Very-Clever-Catch-You-Out-On-Word-Meanings, but at least do it well.
-
Just venting...
Last year my partners mother stayed at our house for a long time (months). I felt constantly judged when I was around her, so I started to become reclusive. She started judging that too. I ended up falling into depression because I felt trapped in my own home.
The day before she left, she told me she hopes I find Jesus.
It took all my willpower not to snap.
Maintain eye contact and reply "Same to you."
-
Nope. They're right. Conversation has a destination. Pointing out the flaws in YOUR beliefs isn't telling you where to end up, only where to leave from.
That's just deprogramming.
I get what you're saying, but you're wrong. I've used the word correctly. Genuinely, look it up.
-
I grew up agnostic/atheist in the Bible Belt. There was a lot of casual discrimination, ostracism, and judgement if you weren't Christian. Even among different churches. I'd have loved for there have been more Christians like you, but unfortunately the TV/Fox News Christians are all over the place down there.
I've never been to the US, but from what I've heard, I don't doubt for a second that the climate is a bit more aggressive over there.
-
I grew up Christian in a place where most people were atheist, went to a Christian school, where about half the students were Christian and the other was atheist, then moved to different places all over. My experience through all of that was always: Regular people in either group mostly don't give a shit and just want to live their own lives. The "Christians" you see on TV are not normal people.
wrote last edited by [email protected]One of my best friends is christian and I didn’t even know for years because it wasn’t relevant and they are a reasonable person.
-
I get what you're saying, but you're wrong. I've used the word correctly. Genuinely, look it up.
You did not. Notice how every example has a direction associated with it
con·ver·sion kən-ˈvər-zhən -shən
Synonyms of conversion
1: the act of converting : the process of being converted2: an experience associated with the definite and decisive adoption of a religion
3a: the operation of finding a converse in logic or mathematics
b: reduction of a mathematical expression by clearing of fractions
4: a successful attempt for a point or points especially after a touchdown or for a first down
5: something converted from one use to another
6: gene conversion
Examples of conversion in a Sentence
The company is undergoing a **conversion to ** a new computer system.
They have suggested conversion of the old school into apartments.
Conversion to gas heating will continue over the next few years.
a conversion from Catholicism to Judaism
He is thinking about conversion to Buddhism.
-
Just venting...
Last year my partners mother stayed at our house for a long time (months). I felt constantly judged when I was around her, so I started to become reclusive. She started judging that too. I ended up falling into depression because I felt trapped in my own home.
The day before she left, she told me she hopes I find Jesus.
It took all my willpower not to snap.
"What do you mean? He watches me from the corner every time I'm masturbating."
-
This post did not contain any content.
Isn't there someone you forgot to ask? [Motions towards where the divine should be]
-
I had the misfortune of needing to attend a "Christian" university for a short while due to visa reasons in the US, the vomit inducing cult speak they do at every opprtunity at a institute that's about education and science was appalling, imagine the kids who have to grow up in such an environment, no wonder the country is so fucked up right now
Religious leaders there openly brag about having gold shoes and private jets…
-
Yes well I'm also an anarchist so, yeah not really stumped by that one
Oh you are? Ok enjoy your block
Anarchy is just a stepping stone to fascism, grow up
-
Yea. Those types don't just exist on TV, they are everyday people in our communities for some of us. To just say they aren't "normal" erases the lived experiences of those who live where these mentalities are still very much the norm for that locality.
How does saying that such hostile treatment is abnormal "erase" anyone's lived experiences?
If you tell someone who lived only eating one meal a day during elementary school that they did not have a normal childhood, you are directly commenting ON their "lived experience", not erasing it.
You seem to be conflating "that's not normal" with "that never happens", which is not reasonable.
-
You did not. Notice how every example has a direction associated with it
con·ver·sion kən-ˈvər-zhən -shən
Synonyms of conversion
1: the act of converting : the process of being converted2: an experience associated with the definite and decisive adoption of a religion
3a: the operation of finding a converse in logic or mathematics
b: reduction of a mathematical expression by clearing of fractions
4: a successful attempt for a point or points especially after a touchdown or for a first down
5: something converted from one use to another
6: gene conversion
Examples of conversion in a Sentence
The company is undergoing a **conversion to ** a new computer system.
They have suggested conversion of the old school into apartments.
Conversion to gas heating will continue over the next few years.
a conversion from Catholicism to Judaism
He is thinking about conversion to Buddhism.
OK, let's go through the motions.
"Conversion to atheism"
Ah, but atheism isn't a belief system, it's the absence of one.
Yes I know, I'm not asserting that atheism is a belief system or a religion or anything like that
But you used the word conversion, as if it was a religion
Yes because you're trying to change my beliefs and win me over to your way of thinking. Conversion is the correct word.
But atheism is the default human position, so you can't convert to it
Humans are social creatures. World views, philosophies and beliefs are cultural, not biological. Atheism is no more the default position than English is the default language. Whatever you start off with, that's your default position.
I'm sorry for putting words in your mouth here, and I hope I haven't put up a strawman argument, but like I said - conversion really is the correct word.
I realise I mightn't have won you over, and that's fine, but this is a mad thing to get hung up on.
BTW, I do appreciate you doing the legwork and actually digging out the definition.
