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When a Christian Makes Contact with an Atheist

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  • F [email protected]

    Jesus mainly spoke about the Kingdom, which is within us and not something otherworldly

    Jesus spoke more about hell than heaven. And more about hell than anyone else in the Bible.

    Paul is quite clear.

    1 Corinthians 6:9-11

    Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

    Romans 2:12-16

    For all who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified. For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.

    Romans 3:22-25

    the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins.

    Romans 6:23

    For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

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    wrote last edited by
    #141

    I looked to first link, and the first biblical reference was Luke 16:23. It's a parable… not a description of actual hell… I saw enough to know that it's not theologically serious.

    The rest of your message is cherrypicking. You can't cite verses without providing any context or analysis, staying on the surface of things, and think you make a point. Again, not theologically serious. You should study the Bible praying, make it resonate with the life of the marginalized people that Jesus came to meet, not just choosing the verses that confirm your preconceptions, or you'll make the Bible saying the contrary of what it says by cherrypicking and staying too literal. Nobody can make this work for you.

    Imagine someone who'd come to you and say: “the Bible say that God doesn't exist, look at Ps 14:1 ‘There is no God’!”. Of course this Psalm says the contrary, and it would be easy to prove, just by citing the verse wholly; but what you do is not different, just more subtle.

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    • dutczar@sopuli.xyzD [email protected]

      You know, as reasonable as it is, the last paragraph does sound totally corny. I'd be fine dating someone who's not as much of a nerd as me, or is a nerd in a different way like movies.

      Especially the bookshelf part, since in my experience, a lot of people with piles of books don't read them (I gave the worse ones away), and making a dating app pic in a library isn't the first thing that comes to mind.

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      wrote last edited by
      #142

      Yeah, and most of the ladies leaning on the hoods of expensive sports cars don't own those cars.

      I haven't read most of the books on my shelves because I'm very ambitious about reading. I read a lot, but I buy about twice as many books as I finish because I'm interested in so many topics. I'm just describing how a person portrays themselves, not whether they've read every book, mastered an instrument, or hiked all the best trails.

      Oh, and here's one that I forgot. I never engaged anyone who took a pic in a mirror in a public bathroom. I don't know why people do that. Set your phone on a timer pretty much anywhere else and take a full body pic with a background that's anything else.

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      • E [email protected]

        I looked to first link, and the first biblical reference was Luke 16:23. It's a parable… not a description of actual hell… I saw enough to know that it's not theologically serious.

        The rest of your message is cherrypicking. You can't cite verses without providing any context or analysis, staying on the surface of things, and think you make a point. Again, not theologically serious. You should study the Bible praying, make it resonate with the life of the marginalized people that Jesus came to meet, not just choosing the verses that confirm your preconceptions, or you'll make the Bible saying the contrary of what it says by cherrypicking and staying too literal. Nobody can make this work for you.

        Imagine someone who'd come to you and say: “the Bible say that God doesn't exist, look at Ps 14:1 ‘There is no God’!”. Of course this Psalm says the contrary, and it would be easy to prove, just by citing the verse wholly; but what you do is not different, just more subtle.

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        wrote last edited by
        #143

        I don't deny that Jesus came to marginalised people. He came to free them, redeem them, and forgive them. He didn't sit around and say "you do you, live your truth". He said "take up your cross, and follow Me".

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        • hoimo@ani.socialH [email protected]

          No, it's relevant actually. I called them protestant, but the OG Lutherans aren't a branch of Catholicism, so why would Pentecostals be a branch of protestantism? Yeah, they're still anti-pope, but they also found enough problems with the established protestants to split off and start something else.

          I don't know if there's a term for the wave of new denominations in the last century, if it's even a single wave at all. Revivalism? And is there a common theme in that wave that leads to cults? Or should we say that the cults are a wave in themselves, caused by some other shift in the zeitgeist? Because as much as I'd like to blame pentecostalism for cultish beliefs (and I think I could make that argument), it could also be a general secularization that strips communities to their cultish cores.

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          wrote last edited by
          #144

          The common wave that leads to cults are generally Restorationists, from what I find.

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          • M [email protected]

            I'm convinced from the evidence that God doesn't care what we believe. If there even is such a thing, and I don't think it's possible to meaningfully answer that, there are many better ways to communicate vital information to people on earth other than choosing someone to relay your messages in a way that is indistinguishable from a mentally ill person who just hears voices in their head.

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            wrote last edited by
            #145

            What better ways to communicate exist?

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            • F [email protected]

              What better ways to communicate exist?

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              wrote last edited by
              #146

              Seems like there's a lot of ways, no? A talking immortal dog, just off the top of my head. That would be hard to counter, especially after the first 500 years and it's still there, spouting the word of god in any language you like.

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              • F [email protected]

                But you'll just be dust someday

                starman2112@sh.itjust.worksS This user is from outside of this forum
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                wrote last edited by
                #147

                We're not dust yet. There is no reason why our eventual death and non-existence should preclude us finding meaning in our present existence.

                F 1 Reply Last reply
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                • F [email protected]

                  I don't deny that Jesus came to marginalised people. He came to free them, redeem them, and forgive them. He didn't sit around and say "you do you, live your truth". He said "take up your cross, and follow Me".

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                  wrote last edited by
                  #148

                  What are you doing, citing verses without understanding them in their context, if not “living your truth”?

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                  • E [email protected]

                    What are you doing, citing verses without understanding them in their context, if not “living your truth”?

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                    wrote last edited by
                    #149

                    Exegesis.

                    I do understand the context of Jesus' verses. He was very literal on the existence of Hell.

                    Matthew 8:8-13

                    [8] But the centurion replied, “Lord, I am not worthy to have you come under my roof, but only say the word, and my servant will be healed. [9] For I too am a man under authority, with soldiers under me. And I say to one, ‘Go,’ and he goes, and to another, ‘Come,’ and he comes, and to my servant, ‘Do this,’ and he does it.” [10] When Jesus heard this, he marveled and said to those who followed him, “Truly, I tell you, with no one in Israel have I found such faith. [11] I tell you, many will come from east and west and recline at table with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven, [12] while the sons of the kingdom will be thrown into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” [13] And to the centurion Jesus said, “Go; let it be done for you as you have believed.” And the servant was healed at that very moment.

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                    • M [email protected]

                      Seems like there's a lot of ways, no? A talking immortal dog, just off the top of my head. That would be hard to counter, especially after the first 500 years and it's still there, spouting the word of god in any language you like.

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                      wrote last edited by
                      #150

                      People would just come up with a scientific explanation for that immortal dog, if they hadn't locked it away in the middle of nowhere already

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                      • A [email protected]

                        You kinda did.

                        "Is that a crazy way to phrase..."

                        And now I've answered it twice, from two different angles. You're going to have to rephrase your question if you're not satisfied at this point, because I don't know what you want from me.

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                        wrote last edited by
                        #151

                        You're misquoting me. I think if you read my comment you would find it easier to understand.

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                        • C [email protected]

                          You're misquoting me. I think if you read my comment you would find it easier to understand.

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                          wrote last edited by
                          #152

                          I'm going to congratulate you. It's taken me several replies before realising that you're a troll - you have gotten further than most.

                          Kudos.

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                          • A [email protected]

                            I'm going to congratulate you. It's taken me several replies before realising that you're a troll - you have gotten further than most.

                            Kudos.

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                            wrote last edited by
                            #153

                            Literally... just read the comment. It does not say what you just said it does...

                            Do you often assume people are out to get you instead of double checking if your assumption was correct?

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                            • F [email protected]

                              Exegesis.

                              I do understand the context of Jesus' verses. He was very literal on the existence of Hell.

                              Matthew 8:8-13

                              [8] But the centurion replied, “Lord, I am not worthy to have you come under my roof, but only say the word, and my servant will be healed. [9] For I too am a man under authority, with soldiers under me. And I say to one, ‘Go,’ and he goes, and to another, ‘Come,’ and he comes, and to my servant, ‘Do this,’ and he does it.” [10] When Jesus heard this, he marveled and said to those who followed him, “Truly, I tell you, with no one in Israel have I found such faith. [11] I tell you, many will come from east and west and recline at table with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven, [12] while the sons of the kingdom will be thrown into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” [13] And to the centurion Jesus said, “Go; let it be done for you as you have believed.” And the servant was healed at that very moment.

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                              wrote last edited by
                              #154

                              Okay, I'll bait. What's the context of this text? Or in other words: what's Jesus speaking about?

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                              • E [email protected]

                                Okay, I'll bait. What's the context of this text? Or in other words: what's Jesus speaking about?

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                                wrote last edited by
                                #155

                                He is saying that many gentiles will come to know God and get into heaven, while those who reject Him will be sent to hell.

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                                • starman2112@sh.itjust.worksS [email protected]

                                  We're not dust yet. There is no reason why our eventual death and non-existence should preclude us finding meaning in our present existence.

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                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #156

                                  Why delay the inevitable

                                  starman2112@sh.itjust.worksS 1 Reply Last reply
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                                  • F [email protected]

                                    If it was created now, then there still is a God.

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                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #157

                                    You said the earth being created old holds more water but it in fact does not.

                                    The idea that the earth was created 5 minutes ago with our entire convo and indeed your entire life being an artifact of its creation should be manifestly absurd to you as you remember differently. This doesn't get more reasonable if you push it back to 10 minutes ago, 10 years ago, or even 6000 years ago.

                                    You should be able to see the continuity of the wrongness as the idea is carried backwards in time

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                                    • B [email protected]
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                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #158

                                      Fixed:

                                      The only winning move is not to play.

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                                      • F [email protected]

                                        People would just come up with a scientific explanation for that immortal dog, if they hadn't locked it away in the middle of nowhere already

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                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #159

                                        locked it away in the middle of nowhere already

                                        Why would they do that lol

                                        People would be in awe of this creature. It's speaking the perfect word of god, understandable to all. It cannot be killed and clearly defies all scientific understanding of our modern age. (This thing would pre-date the birth of true science though and more than likely prevent science even coming to be - there would be no need of science or any kind of human progress if we had an indisputable communication channel with god such as this)

                                        I can't help but chuckle at the puny god that you seem to believe in though. God - if it exists and I genuinely believe that question is unanswerable - would be an entity outside time and space way beyond the tiniest comprehension of any human. It would have absolute power over every aspect of the universe. Protecting a dog from any number of humans with any type of weaponry would be such a trivial task for such a being. If the dog didn't want to be moved, it wouldn't move. If it wanted to pass through a wall it would pass though like a red hot ball bearing through butter.

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                                        • F [email protected]

                                          He is saying that many gentiles will come to know God and get into heaven, while those who reject Him will be sent to hell.

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                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #160

                                          No, you're reformulating the verse. I'm asking for context. What was the discussion about?

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