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When a Christian Makes Contact with an Atheist

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  • F [email protected]

    But you'll just be dust someday

    starman2112@sh.itjust.worksS This user is from outside of this forum
    starman2112@sh.itjust.worksS This user is from outside of this forum
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    wrote last edited by
    #147

    We're not dust yet. There is no reason why our eventual death and non-existence should preclude us finding meaning in our present existence.

    F 1 Reply Last reply
    1
    • F [email protected]

      I don't deny that Jesus came to marginalised people. He came to free them, redeem them, and forgive them. He didn't sit around and say "you do you, live your truth". He said "take up your cross, and follow Me".

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      wrote last edited by
      #148

      What are you doing, citing verses without understanding them in their context, if not “living your truth”?

      F 1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • E [email protected]

        What are you doing, citing verses without understanding them in their context, if not “living your truth”?

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        wrote last edited by
        #149

        Exegesis.

        I do understand the context of Jesus' verses. He was very literal on the existence of Hell.

        Matthew 8:8-13

        [8] But the centurion replied, “Lord, I am not worthy to have you come under my roof, but only say the word, and my servant will be healed. [9] For I too am a man under authority, with soldiers under me. And I say to one, ‘Go,’ and he goes, and to another, ‘Come,’ and he comes, and to my servant, ‘Do this,’ and he does it.” [10] When Jesus heard this, he marveled and said to those who followed him, “Truly, I tell you, with no one in Israel have I found such faith. [11] I tell you, many will come from east and west and recline at table with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven, [12] while the sons of the kingdom will be thrown into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” [13] And to the centurion Jesus said, “Go; let it be done for you as you have believed.” And the servant was healed at that very moment.

        E 1 Reply Last reply
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        • M [email protected]

          Seems like there's a lot of ways, no? A talking immortal dog, just off the top of my head. That would be hard to counter, especially after the first 500 years and it's still there, spouting the word of god in any language you like.

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          wrote last edited by
          #150

          People would just come up with a scientific explanation for that immortal dog, if they hadn't locked it away in the middle of nowhere already

          M 1 Reply Last reply
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          • A [email protected]

            You kinda did.

            "Is that a crazy way to phrase..."

            And now I've answered it twice, from two different angles. You're going to have to rephrase your question if you're not satisfied at this point, because I don't know what you want from me.

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            wrote last edited by
            #151

            You're misquoting me. I think if you read my comment you would find it easier to understand.

            A 1 Reply Last reply
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            • C [email protected]

              You're misquoting me. I think if you read my comment you would find it easier to understand.

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              wrote last edited by
              #152

              I'm going to congratulate you. It's taken me several replies before realising that you're a troll - you have gotten further than most.

              Kudos.

              C 1 Reply Last reply
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              • A [email protected]

                I'm going to congratulate you. It's taken me several replies before realising that you're a troll - you have gotten further than most.

                Kudos.

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                wrote last edited by
                #153

                Literally... just read the comment. It does not say what you just said it does...

                Do you often assume people are out to get you instead of double checking if your assumption was correct?

                1 Reply Last reply
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                • F [email protected]

                  Exegesis.

                  I do understand the context of Jesus' verses. He was very literal on the existence of Hell.

                  Matthew 8:8-13

                  [8] But the centurion replied, “Lord, I am not worthy to have you come under my roof, but only say the word, and my servant will be healed. [9] For I too am a man under authority, with soldiers under me. And I say to one, ‘Go,’ and he goes, and to another, ‘Come,’ and he comes, and to my servant, ‘Do this,’ and he does it.” [10] When Jesus heard this, he marveled and said to those who followed him, “Truly, I tell you, with no one in Israel have I found such faith. [11] I tell you, many will come from east and west and recline at table with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven, [12] while the sons of the kingdom will be thrown into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” [13] And to the centurion Jesus said, “Go; let it be done for you as you have believed.” And the servant was healed at that very moment.

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                  wrote last edited by
                  #154

                  Okay, I'll bait. What's the context of this text? Or in other words: what's Jesus speaking about?

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                  • E [email protected]

                    Okay, I'll bait. What's the context of this text? Or in other words: what's Jesus speaking about?

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                    wrote last edited by
                    #155

                    He is saying that many gentiles will come to know God and get into heaven, while those who reject Him will be sent to hell.

                    E 1 Reply Last reply
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                    • starman2112@sh.itjust.worksS [email protected]

                      We're not dust yet. There is no reason why our eventual death and non-existence should preclude us finding meaning in our present existence.

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                      wrote last edited by
                      #156

                      Why delay the inevitable

                      starman2112@sh.itjust.worksS 1 Reply Last reply
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                      • F [email protected]

                        If it was created now, then there still is a God.

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                        wrote last edited by
                        #157

                        You said the earth being created old holds more water but it in fact does not.

                        The idea that the earth was created 5 minutes ago with our entire convo and indeed your entire life being an artifact of its creation should be manifestly absurd to you as you remember differently. This doesn't get more reasonable if you push it back to 10 minutes ago, 10 years ago, or even 6000 years ago.

                        You should be able to see the continuity of the wrongness as the idea is carried backwards in time

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                        • B [email protected]
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                          wrote last edited by
                          #158

                          Fixed:

                          The only winning move is not to play.

                          1 Reply Last reply
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                          • F [email protected]

                            People would just come up with a scientific explanation for that immortal dog, if they hadn't locked it away in the middle of nowhere already

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                            wrote last edited by
                            #159

                            locked it away in the middle of nowhere already

                            Why would they do that lol

                            People would be in awe of this creature. It's speaking the perfect word of god, understandable to all. It cannot be killed and clearly defies all scientific understanding of our modern age. (This thing would pre-date the birth of true science though and more than likely prevent science even coming to be - there would be no need of science or any kind of human progress if we had an indisputable communication channel with god such as this)

                            I can't help but chuckle at the puny god that you seem to believe in though. God - if it exists and I genuinely believe that question is unanswerable - would be an entity outside time and space way beyond the tiniest comprehension of any human. It would have absolute power over every aspect of the universe. Protecting a dog from any number of humans with any type of weaponry would be such a trivial task for such a being. If the dog didn't want to be moved, it wouldn't move. If it wanted to pass through a wall it would pass though like a red hot ball bearing through butter.

                            F 1 Reply Last reply
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                            • F [email protected]

                              He is saying that many gentiles will come to know God and get into heaven, while those who reject Him will be sent to hell.

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                              wrote last edited by
                              #160

                              No, you're reformulating the verse. I'm asking for context. What was the discussion about?

                              F 1 Reply Last reply
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                              • F [email protected]

                                Why delay the inevitable

                                starman2112@sh.itjust.worksS This user is from outside of this forum
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                                wrote last edited by
                                #161

                                Why not? It's coming anyway, no need to hurry it along. There are things to do while you wait.

                                F 1 Reply Last reply
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                                • E [email protected]

                                  No, you're reformulating the verse. I'm asking for context. What was the discussion about?

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                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #162

                                  He was talking to a centurion and about the salvation of the gentiles who come to The Messiah and damnation of Jews who reject Him.

                                  1 Reply Last reply
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                                  • M [email protected]

                                    locked it away in the middle of nowhere already

                                    Why would they do that lol

                                    People would be in awe of this creature. It's speaking the perfect word of god, understandable to all. It cannot be killed and clearly defies all scientific understanding of our modern age. (This thing would pre-date the birth of true science though and more than likely prevent science even coming to be - there would be no need of science or any kind of human progress if we had an indisputable communication channel with god such as this)

                                    I can't help but chuckle at the puny god that you seem to believe in though. God - if it exists and I genuinely believe that question is unanswerable - would be an entity outside time and space way beyond the tiniest comprehension of any human. It would have absolute power over every aspect of the universe. Protecting a dog from any number of humans with any type of weaponry would be such a trivial task for such a being. If the dog didn't want to be moved, it wouldn't move. If it wanted to pass through a wall it would pass though like a red hot ball bearing through butter.

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                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #163

                                    God is beyond absurd things such as leaving behind dogs. Look at the sky at night if there's no light pollution. There you can see a glimpse of God's glory and power

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                                    • F [email protected]

                                      God is beyond absurd things such as leaving behind dogs. Look at the sky at night if there's no light pollution. There you can see a glimpse of God's glory and power

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                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #164

                                      yeah well when you're ready to join us in the 21st century, we'll be here waiting. until then have fun with your stone age incomprehension of the heavens and self-aggrandizing tales of fabulous rewards after death.

                                      1 Reply Last reply
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                                      • starman2112@sh.itjust.worksS [email protected]

                                        Why not? It's coming anyway, no need to hurry it along. There are things to do while you wait.

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                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #165

                                        Like think about how you can die at any moment

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                                        • A [email protected]

                                          Sorry, but it's true. I'm afraid you're going to have to take it up with a higher authority than me (i.e. the dictionary people) if you want to change how the word is used.

                                          It's the word for changing someone's belief system not, as you seem to think, giving someone a new belief system.

                                          Sorry, but I'm correct here.

                                          Also, here's additional lesson for you - you started your reply admitting that the question was asked in bad faith, that I did spot what you were talking about, and that you do know that I'm talking about atheism. Then you finish with "so my question stands".

                                          No it doesn't. You understood fully what I was talking about in both the post you replied to and my response. So it doesn't stand - you already knew the answer.

                                          Look, I don't mind you having a crack at being Mr I'm-Very-Clever-Catch-You-Out-On-Word-Meanings, but at least do it well.

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                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #166

                                          According to the first page of my search the Cambridge, Merriam Webster, Dictionary.com, Collins dictionaries all imply conversion needs also adopting a new belief/opinion/religion.

                                          I feel it's a commonly propagated lie within certain religions that atheism is a belief, which of course it's not (it's the lack of belief, like most people have about fairies, flat Earth or the Mayan end of the world). I don't know if your mention of this statement is that you agree or not, but if you do - how do you arrive at the position that questioning is being the same as (lexical) conversion?

                                          I get that a large part of Abrahamitic religions in particular is to obey and not question, as well as theism being necessary to be accepted in the religion (and not a heretic); is it that the questioning positions you outside of the religion and thus deconverts? Is that how you arrive at the "change"?

                                          I apologise for the clumsy phrasing, but if we're reading the same text and coming to different conclusions, I must assume we're using words differently and would need to backtrack to find our last point of common understanding.

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