Yeah, certainly no baggage on .world...

My whole point was about primaries, but even still he's polling well in the lead. If he wins will you admit that it can be done?

Winning a primary doesn't mean much if the party crushes you in the general. I hope he wins and I would be happy to admit I was wrong if he makes it and actually lives up to his word once in office.

Okay, what's your point? That the same population that's too apathetic to vote in a primary are going to what, pick up arms and take to the streets? Organize behind and promote a minority party? How do you plan to build a coalition behind an objectively more difficult and unlikely strategy? You don't.

Mamdani, and several other leftist candidates have been running exceptionally successful grassroots campaigns through social media and hitting the streets. We live in the information age, viral community-driven campaigns have the potential to reach more people than legacy media. And again, what alternative do you propose that will face less corporate opposition? You think the DNC is going to stay silent on third party candidates competing for their votes? You think corporate media is going to stay silent on any attempt at actual revolution? If the machine is so powerful, what action are you suggesting that can actually overcome it?

My point is that you're advocating for people to try and fix the system from within the broken system itself. Democratic and Republican primaries are completely controlled by these two private organizations not some overarching organization, people, or law. It's naive to think that you can somehow outplay the DNC (or RNC) leadership at a game they crafted and rigged themselves. It's like thinking you can outplay the house at a casino if you just use the right strategy. Even if you do somehow find a winning strategy, they'll just refuse to pay you, take you into the backroom, beat your ass, and then have police come haul you out for trespassing because the house always wins. You won't get better candidates by picking from the handful of predetermined candidates that the DNC offers you in their primary race whether 15% vote or 100% vote.

I don't know what the 'correct' approach is but I know it isn't this. Perhaps some actual grassroots organizations can put something together or an existing third party can take their placr, but regardless of what it is, it's not going to be something internal to these organizations, it has to come from the outside.

No I dont think the DNC or corporate media will ignore these events, they'll come out swinging like they did in 2008 with the Occupy Wall Street protests. They'll paint these outsiders as kooks and extremists and make them look like a joke on TV and the internet. You speak about the information age as if everyone is somehow more enlightened than generations past, yet we see people as a whole getting dumber and less informed as time goes on. We see the powerful using social media to spread a bunch of lies and disinformation. We see the truth being cast aside or drowned in a bunch of noise.

So long as elections in this country are FPTP, and leftists don't show up to primaries, and Republicans keep pushing Christo-fascism, then they are correct that it is the best option.

How are these people "the best option" in hindsight when we know for a fact that they lost the election? I find statements like this so utterly insane. You're referring to the very people that we unquestionably know weren't the best option by virtue of them losing these elections to a buffoon. This party of "the best options" were so 'good' that the Republicans control the entire government now.

Splitting the anti-Republican vote just helps the Republicans, and by extension the Heritage Foundation and Federalist Society. Personally, I'd rather have a Neo-Liberal government than a Christian Nationalist one, and there aren't any other options right now.

This is just the "vote blue no matter who" mentality i previously referred to phrased another way. Neo-Liberal governments have driven us to this point alongside the Christian Nationalists. They're both responsible for this and they're the ones determining the options we have. I legitimately cannot understand how someone like yourself can agree that we have terrible options while simultaneously arguing that we need to support the people determining said options. It'd be like going to a grocery store filled with rancid food and telling yourself that you need to choose something off the shelf because that particular store left you no other options. Why would you do that? Why reward that store with your hard earned money? It's such incredibly closed-minded behavior that harms your own self interests and not only are you advocating that you should shop there personally, but everyone else should too.

No disagreement here, but where's the incinerator and the power to throw them in it? If I had a magic wand that I could wave to erase both parties, I would. But I don't have that kind of magic wand, and neither do you. We have to operate in the environment we actually exist in. Idealism doesn't get us any closer to material change. Voting against the worst option is the best choice we have at the polls, until we can get seriously organized. Serious organization takes a lot of time and effort. Ignoring the material present for a vague idealist future is a massive strategic blunder.

The incinerator is your vote and what you decide to do with it. The environment we exist in isn't limited to these two private parties. That's just what they want you to believe. Sacrificing your ideals just to be disappointed and have things get worse because neo-liberals don't serve the American people isnt going to bring material change either. Doing the same thing every election isnt going to bring about change. Constantly "voting against the worst option" just means the next worse option can safely ignore you and refuse to improve things because they have you convinced that they're your only choice and therefore have no accountability to anyone. I'd argue that someone in your position is "ignoring the material present for some vague idealistic future." You think if the Dems can just win this next election they'll turn things around and eventually the Republicans will scurry off somewhere, but we've seen numerous times that even with a Democratic supermajority, they have no interest in fixing things and Republicans aren't going anywhere because they're doing the exact same thing to their base.

It's a lot harder to organize as a political prisoner in a concentration camp.

And regardless of which party wins any given election, we've been steadily approaching that reality with each passing day. Seems like a great wakeup call that some actual change is needed, no?

Sorry if I don't want to ally with people who constantly talk about killing other leftists (aka all of lemmy.ml).

[dude with glasses in a communist t-shirt, arguing]
I'm the only leftist here, your opinions are TRASH

[dude holding a theory book on smug, arguing]
Read theory you losers, you're all WRONG

[dude in an anarchist hoodie, arguing]
Nuh-uh, I'm the only leftist here, you're SHITLIBS

[the three dudes are now caught in a cartoon fight, glasses gone flying, punches everywhere, while a firing squad of nazis are targeting them with rifles]

[a confused nazi asks]
Why… why are they still arguing?

Infighting | The Bad Website

Infighting - A comic on The Bad Website

The Bad Website (thebad.website)

Oop we got an example of the comic here all triggered LOL

This is an odd take just considering World War 2 is like the example of unity against a common genocidal threat: the Nazis.

" The Holo-incident is not THAT bad"
Tankies Nazis

Me? Is this because I said the SS should have been executed?

I believe you are missing the forest for the trees.
First, I acknowledge your examples are separate ideologies.

That concept also applies to the right... social conservatives, right-libertarians, and neoliberal ideologies are equally separate. However, those practitioners have no qualms about banding together to suppress dissent (or until such time they are the only voices).

Where the left leaning practitioners are unable to do so, they will be forever tyrannized by the banded majority.

To put it more succinctly, the enemy of my enemy is my friend (when freedom is on the line).

a tankie has a gun with one bullet, and across from them is a socialist, a liberal, a conservative, and a tiny clone of hitler

I was in very close proximity to a Russian-driven disinformation campaign in 2016 that used and exploited leftist organizations for its own benefit.

How did you uncover this information?

Lol, in a post condemning leftist infighting, people are up voting people attacking other leftists for being from the wrong instance

[dude with glasses in a communist t-shirt, arguing]
I'm the only leftist here, your opinions are TRASH

[dude holding a theory book on smug, arguing]
Read theory you losers, you're all WRONG

[dude in an anarchist hoodie, arguing]
Nuh-uh, I'm the only leftist here, you're SHITLIBS

[the three dudes are now caught in a cartoon fight, glasses gone flying, punches everywhere, while a firing squad of nazis are targeting them with rifles]

[a confused nazi asks]
Why… why are they still arguing?

Infighting | The Bad Website

Infighting - A comic on The Bad Website

The Bad Website (thebad.website)

[dude with glasses in a communist t-shirt, arguing]
I'm the only leftist here, your opinions are TRASH

[dude holding a theory book on smug, arguing]
Read theory you losers, you're all WRONG

[dude in an anarchist hoodie, arguing]
Nuh-uh, I'm the only leftist here, you're SHITLIBS

[the three dudes are now caught in a cartoon fight, glasses gone flying, punches everywhere, while a firing squad of nazis are targeting them with rifles]

[a confused nazi asks]
Why… why are they still arguing?

Infighting | The Bad Website

Infighting - A comic on The Bad Website

The Bad Website (thebad.website)

No, we are attacking people for hanging out in an Nazi authie genocide denying transphobe bars.

I’m more interested in top vs bottom than left vs right.

I do it all the time. Done it several places in this thread even. Though lying and dishonesty from a joke like you. Who's shitty hot takes are regularly posted on and laughed at in many communities. That's completely on brand.

For every weak and tepid bit of support I've ever given the DNC during the presidential election. I could give you 10 to 13 calling them out. Because I do it all the time. However terminally online little trolls like yourself aren't interested in facts or reality. And your disapproval is a badge of honor.

Articles started popping up and an activist group near me, as well as a couple others across the country, were also involved. A Russian very obviously associated with the Kremlin, was flowing money to these orgs under the guise of a common goal and alignment. Their ultimate goal was to sow chaos during election time and to take votes away from other candidates. It was US-esque tactics on US soil.

I didn’t uncover anything and was merely volunteering with one of the groups when I could, but it was one of those “oh fuck” moments when I saw articles involving the group I was working with.

[dude with glasses in a communist t-shirt, arguing]
I'm the only leftist here, your opinions are TRASH

[dude holding a theory book on smug, arguing]
Read theory you losers, you're all WRONG

[dude in an anarchist hoodie, arguing]
Nuh-uh, I'm the only leftist here, you're SHITLIBS

[the three dudes are now caught in a cartoon fight, glasses gone flying, punches everywhere, while a firing squad of nazis are targeting them with rifles]

[a confused nazi asks]
Why… why are they still arguing?

Infighting | The Bad Website

Infighting - A comic on The Bad Website

The Bad Website (thebad.website)

Articles started popping up

What do you mean "articles"? Articles where? Based on what?

an activist group near me, as well as a couple others across the country, were also involved

Involved in what? How did you determine this?

A Russian very obviously associated with the Kremlin

What do mean "very obviously associated with the Kremlin"? How did you determine this?

Their ultimate goal was to sow chaos during election time and to take votes away from other candidates.

Again, how did you determine this?

it was one of those “oh fuck” moments

What was? What actually was found?

Alexander Ionov - Wikipedia

(en.m.wikipedia.org)

Alexander Ionov was charged by a US Dept. of Justice indictment unsealed on July 29, 2022. He is accused of working on behalf of the Russian government and in conjunction with the Russian Federal Security Service (FSB) and orchestrating a years-long foreign malign influence campaign that used various U.S. political groups to sow discord, spread pro-Russian propaganda, and interfere in elections within the United States.[10] According to the indictment, Ionov is accused of providing support to political campaigns in Florida, advocating for California's secession from the United States, and financing a protest tour in solidarity with a petition denouncing the alleged "genocide" of African people within the country.[11]

The organizations him and his company worked with were also pulled into that investigation and, in some cases, charged themselves. I was no longer working with them by the time the charges came, so it was scary to suddenly see articles years later being published about this.