Infighting
-
Articles started popping up
What do you mean "articles"? Articles where? Based on what?
an activist group near me, as well as a couple others across the country, were also involved
Involved in what? How did you determine this?
A Russian very obviously associated with the Kremlin
What do mean "very obviously associated with the Kremlin"? How did you determine this?
Their ultimate goal was to sow chaos during election time and to take votes away from other candidates.
Again, how did you determine this?
it was one of those “oh fuck” moments
What was? What actually was found?
wrote last edited by [email protected]Alexander Ionov was charged by a US Dept. of Justice indictment unsealed on July 29, 2022. He is accused of working on behalf of the Russian government and in conjunction with the Russian Federal Security Service (FSB) and orchestrating a years-long foreign malign influence campaign that used various U.S. political groups to sow discord, spread pro-Russian propaganda, and interfere in elections within the United States.[10] According to the indictment, Ionov is accused of providing support to political campaigns in Florida, advocating for California's secession from the United States, and financing a protest tour in solidarity with a petition denouncing the alleged "genocide" of African people within the country.[11]
The organizations him and his company worked with were also pulled into that investigation and, in some cases, charged themselves. I was no longer working with them by the time the charges came, so it was scary to suddenly see articles years later being published about this.
-
Alexander Ionov was charged by a US Dept. of Justice indictment unsealed on July 29, 2022. He is accused of working on behalf of the Russian government and in conjunction with the Russian Federal Security Service (FSB) and orchestrating a years-long foreign malign influence campaign that used various U.S. political groups to sow discord, spread pro-Russian propaganda, and interfere in elections within the United States.[10] According to the indictment, Ionov is accused of providing support to political campaigns in Florida, advocating for California's secession from the United States, and financing a protest tour in solidarity with a petition denouncing the alleged "genocide" of African people within the country.[11]
The organizations him and his company worked with were also pulled into that investigation and, in some cases, charged themselves. I was no longer working with them by the time the charges came, so it was scary to suddenly see articles years later being published about this.
So wait, by "articles" you meant Wikipedia articles?
-
So wait, by "articles" you meant Wikipedia articles?
-
Lazy strawman, used to justify punching left
Yeah, no, I'm not listening to one word of whatever bs you're spouting.
-
You caught me: I spent a lot of time working on getting that bit juuuust right because because I'm going to get it printed on a mug and gift it to a couple people who'll love it. Glad you liked it, it means I did it right!
Making t-shirts and merch is my sidequest when drawing smuggies. I don't sell them, it's just for self-wear, I've got an entire wardrobe of them by now. The one I'm wearing today :
You not to are immune propaganda
Jokes aside I'd wear that outside lol
-
Yeah, no, I'm not listening to one word of whatever bs you're spouting.
wrote last edited by [email protected]Clearly. If you actually listened to what the people you've arbitrarily declared to be The Enemy say, you wouldn't be able to make up lazy strawmen about what they believe.
-
This is an odd take just considering World War 2 is like the example of unity against a common genocidal threat: the Nazis.
There were no anarchists left in the USSR.
-
The truth about many republicans, is that they want good things for society as well. However they are some of the most gullible, ignorant, uneducated, even miseducated people you will ever care to meet.
It is possible to reach them. But it is one of the most Herculean tasks you will ever undertake. One of the hardest parts of it is to avoid triggering their programming. Starting small with basic concepts you can both agree on. And working from there.
But it is one of the most Herculean tasks you will ever undertake.
So follow his lead. Divert a river and float the shit away or make them run in snow until they are tired.
-
This isn't infighting between liberals and leftists, this is infighting between different flavours of leftism, like anarchism and marxist-leninism.
ah yes, because marxist-leninism has no history of its adherents glorifying imperialism or state-capitalism.
-
" The Holo-incident is not THAT bad"
Tankies
Naziswrote last edited by [email protected]Comparing a famine caused by poor harvests across eastern europe and exacerbated by poor management to the fucking holocaust is wild.
-
Comparing a famine caused by poor harvests across eastern europe and exacerbated by poor management to the fucking holocaust is wild.
Not just wild, also a form of Holocaust denial.
-
This is an odd take just considering World War 2 is like the example of unity against a common genocidal threat: the Nazis.
Yeah and that only happened after years of the Nazi party being in power in Germany. And they even got Sudetenland as appeasement by France and Britain without the consent of Czechoslovakia. France and Britain only gave a fuck after Poland was invaded while the rest of Europe tried to stay neutral. And later Italy joined the Nazi. Europe wasn’t very united against the Nazi. Unity of the allies only happened after hundreds of thousands civilians were already executed. Before the invasion of Poland the Nazi executed political opponents and rounded up the Jews in Germany and the world didn’t do shit about it.
-
Comparing a famine caused by poor harvests across eastern europe and exacerbated by poor management to the fucking holocaust is wild.
"poor management" is one hell of a way to put it.
-
The antidote to infighting in my experience is organizing in ideologically diverse spaces. I've organized with liberals and all types of different leftists. It has left me with the perspective that all these people are good people that just want better for the world. It's hard to get angry at them once you know them. Per usual the solution is to touch grass.
The opposite is the case. What worked historically is organizing in an ideologically united platform.
Vanguard parties won revolutions. Ideologically diverse big tent organizations have always eventually broken apart and none has brought a revolution thus far.
And working with liberals has never been a good idea. They're not a part of the left, they belong to a right wing ideology. That would be like saying we should work together with Nazis, because after all they have socialist in their name.
-
No. I've seen marxist-leninists, maoists, and anyone in that area of thought arguing the following:
- LGBTQ+ identities are bourgeois degeneracy
- Trans people are a capitalist invention to divide workers
- Nazis have a point when it comes to nationalism
- Assad and Putin are leftists
- Anarchism has never been tried successfully (because every time someone tried they got betrayed by MLs and executed by them for wrongthink)
- Animal Farm is capitalist propaganda
- Killing millions of people is necessary for a better world
- States are 100% necessary for the development of socialism
- China is communist or will be communist by 2050
- Ukraine is a Nazi state who deserves to be invaded
- Russia taking children from Ukraine and relocating them is just them being nice and removing them out of the warzone
- Anarchists are all children who don't know better
- The socialist state must uphold "traditional values"
- Stalin exclusively killed Nazis
- The only valid leftist theory is the one that argues Marxism-Leninism is correct
- "Socialist" police are a good thing because they don't serve capital, they serve the people
- Leftists who don't agree with us are enemies of the revolution and should be enslaved because they will attempt to overthrow our successful socialist state
If you think ANY of those arguments are valid for leftism, then I'm sorry, but I don't want you around me.
wrote last edited by [email protected]This is literal ruling class propaganda. No Marxist or Marxist-Leninist is against LGBT, thinks Nazis or nationalism has a point, claims Putin is leftist, etc.
Stop trying to stir division, astroturf.
-
There were no anarchists left in the USSR.
wrote last edited by [email protected]The Soviet Union was established before the Nazis existed. There was no need to ally with anarchists against them when they didn't exist yet and waged war.
A better example would be the Spanish civil war where communists, liberals and anarchists did fight on the same side until infighting broke out due to an ineffective and non-authorative government. Meaning they failed to establish a leading ideology which could have prevented this.
-
“Voting is actually bad”
Tankies Naziswhelp, straight to infighting.
-
See the comments for a bunch of examples
wrote last edited by [email protected]Still looking for a single leftist here who claims they support communism. I constantly see it being attributed to the left, but in real life scenarios I just don't see it, only in memes, unless you meant socialism, which is a healthy system of every country, including US.
EDIT: I guess I should stop waiting, this feels like strawman argument/gatekeeping
-
I'm anti authoritarian and anti right. Tankies are leftists that I have no interest in getting along with. They are just as excited to be holding the gun in this comic
They would also tell me to my (virtual) face that they think my country has no right to exist, so that too makes it pretty hard to have any sort of productive collaboration.
-
It took centuries before any liberal or democratic project managed to produce a society that wasn't far more brutal than the USSR. Yet you don't see people going around saying "the French Revolution permanently damaged the Democratic brand!"
Because the French Revolution didnt permanently damage democracy as a political system. And democratic system in one form or another existed for millennia before the French Revolution.
The USSR and China under the CCP permanently discredited (without any chance of rehabilitation) communism as legitimate ideology.
No one in their right mind would want anything to do with communism. It's like asking for genocide, mass killings, gulags, lack of free expression and poverty. No one is going to do that.
And I not saying this in the polemical sense used by pro-crime/pro-corruption Americans ("this is such a socialist shirhole").
